Itch.io is shadowbanning or deleting NSFW and LGBTQ content

[Not a Decepticon]

So--just to make sure I understand the issue--

Mastercard and Visa told them "remove this material immediately or lose our services," and if Itch.io didn't do as they demanded, everyone who wanted to buy anything at Itch.io (regardless of whether it was deemed NSFW or whatever) wouldn't be able to use their debit or credit cards to do so.

So Itch.io agreed to do what the credit card holders demanded, and lots of people found their materials delisted practically overnight without any chance to defend themselves.

Is that accurate? (Serious question, not trolling.)

Except itch.io knew this was an issue since APRIL and did nothing to warn people it may happen. In fact, it looks like they were hoping to do it as stealthily as possible and hoping nobody notices.

 

[Not a Decepticon]

so you would have lost access to the payment processors (which would also impact EVERYONE on the site) then....and more than likely get known for associating with the listed content.

My answer would be that I'd see the companies in court. And I would make as much stinker around it as possible to make their reputation tank big time. Which did happen anyway, so itch could have been on side of the customers, but sided with big corproations isntead.

 

[Deset Gled]

So--just to make sure I understand the issue--

Mastercard and Visa told them "remove this material immediately or lose our services," and if Itch.io didn't do as they demanded, everyone who wanted to buy anything at Itch.io (regardless of whether it was deemed NSFW or whatever) wouldn't be able to use their debit or credit cards to do so.

So Itch.io agreed to do what the credit card holders demanded, and lots of people found their materials delisted practically overnight without any chance to defend themselves.

Is that accurate? (Serious question, not trolling.)

I think this is mostly accurate from what I've read, with a few caveats:

- I believe Mastercard and Visa didn't give itch a comprehensive list of "this material", they gave guidelines. Itch is responsible for how they implemented those guidelines.

- We don't know exactly what kind of a threat was made. It could have been "Do this in 12 hours or you cash flow dies." or it could have been "Dear sir, please do this or things might be unpleasant".

- Lots of material wasn't delisted, it was shadowbanned. IMNSHO that's the most cowardly way to handle the situation, YMMV.

- No one made public notices about any of this until after it was caught by users, even though it seems the process may have started months ago.

Those details add a lot of gray area in the middle of this mess.

 

[GrimCo]

Yea, Visa/MC are big players in payment processing and can throw they weight around. But, they are not payment processor per se. They are card networks, they only move money using credit/debit cards, they don't process direct bank transfers.

I'm just curious, is there a way to get payment without use of visa/mc? In EU, we have SEPA transfers, from one bank account to another, with both regular SCT and SCT Insta (used for real time online payments) and payment gateways (some smaller webshops do regular invoicing, you buy, they send invoice, you pay, they deliver after they confirm payment). Does USA have something similar?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

- We don't know exactly what kind of a threat was made. It could have been "Do this in 12 hours or you cash flow dies." or it could have been "Dear sir, please do this or things might be unpleasant".

We kind of do actually - you can read the merchant agreements on the Mastercard and Visa sites, so we don't have to speculate entirely.

I haven't read the Visa one's penalties yet, but the Mastercard ones are basically "nuclear bomb" level. They can:

1) Fine you hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially into the millions it looks like), especially if any at all transactions continue.

2) Fine you for previous transactions, even if you had no reason to believe there was anything wrong with them.

3) Assign a third-party auditor at your cost (you are not allowed to say no), which could potentially cost an unlimited amount of money given it'd often a be high-end corporate law firm which did this.

4) Report you on MATCH Pro, as a dangerous and untrustworthy business, even if they have no proof of that - it's just up to their opinion, meaning even if you survive this, people may not accept transactions from you.

This is for violating section 5.12.7 which is definitely the issue given what Itch have said (the equivalent for Visa is 1.3.3.4).

The rules really do not look like "Dear sir" anything, and further, the way Itch reacted is also not the way a company reacts to "Dear sir", so I think we can easily rule that out.

- No one made public notices about any of this until after it was caught by users, even though it seems the process may have started months ago.

I don't think that kind of "it could have been going on for months" speculation is helpful when there's absolutely no evidence to support it.

What actually seems to have happened is:

A) In April CS attempted to harass Itch and Steam directly, but only succeeded in get a small number of games removed.

B) In May CS decided to harass MC/Visa and shotgun attempt to just having all sorts of games removed, with no specific targets.

So I don't think this has been "going on for months", unless you mean like, maybe June and July? But given the sequence of events and I don't think people would have missed that it was happening, I suspect it's been days.

Except itch.io knew this was an issue since APRIL and did nothing to warn people it may happen.

Have you got a link? I've tried looking it up but I'm not seeing anything supporting this claim yet.

Also, "knew" in what sense? Because I note that the actual campaign to bother Visa and MC from CS didn't start until quite far through May and May is AFTER April. So what it sounds like your saying is that CS made vague and probably hotheaded and a little bit demented threats to Itch and Steam in April, and when those two companies only two down a few obviously-dodgy games, CS got very upset and decided to target Visa/MC.

Because it'd be very different if MC/Visa had warned them in April, but I don't think that happened, because that doesn't work chronologically.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Some confusion on whether Itch delisted Mouthwashing - devs say yes, Itch claims no.

 

[Nicholas Reed]

Itch would have been wiser to use a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer.

 

[trappedslider]

Itch would have been wiser to use a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer.

sledge hammer is quicker and easier on itch's part

 

[Muh]

sledge hammer is quicker and easier on itch's part

But worse for everyone else.

 

[Jadeite]

But worse for everyone else.

That remains to be seen. While itch.io might not have intended it, this nuclear option brought a lot more attention. Otherwise they would just have kept doing it, one tag at a time.