Item creation feats

[Chernobyl]

What do you think about the current amount of feats required to make items?

Looking back at the way things used to be in 2nd edition, by the time you hit level 14 you could make anything you liked almost. The way things are now, you have to use 6 feats, leaving you with 2 left for extra snackies such as quicken spell, combat initiative or whatever....

Does anyone else think that you should either a) get more bonus feats to reflect the way it used to be in 2nd edition or b) make a new feat system with a wider range of items you can create.

One thing I don't agree with the new system is the power of the items you can create using the rules as they are. As soon as you have the cash, which mage ISN'T going to create a +6 int/cha item to boost his daily spells and DC's? I am thinking of limiting the power of items to be similar to the weapon bonus limits...ie 1 point per 3 levels of the creator. What do you think about that?

Thanks for the input !

 

[shilsen]

Here's a suggestion

One quick fix for both your problems is to break the item creation feats down into 3: Create Minor Item, Create Medium Item, and Create Major Item. You could also set spellcaster level prerequisites for each one, which would make it impossible for a PC to create a +6 stat bonus item (which is a major item) before a level that you think is desirable.

 

[kreynolds]

One thing I don't agree with the new system is the power of the items you can create using the rules as they are. As soon as you have the cash, which mage ISN'T going to create a +6 int/cha item to boost his daily spells and DC's?

Personally, I wouldn't touch the item creation feats with a 10-foot pole. I think they're perfect the way they are. Think about this. If your wizard is just itching to craft a ring of something (+6 to Int), that's not really a big deal. It's a 36,000gp item. Also, that will take 36 days to create, and will drain him of 1,440XP. Also, since there are so many item creation feats, you don't end up with a mass arms dealer of a player because there are so many to pick up. And the DMG says item costs are just a guide. So, if you want, make it more expensive.

I am thinking of limiting the power of items to be similar to the weapon bonus limits...ie 1 point per 3 levels of the creator. What do you think about that?

I don't see how you could pull this off but it just feels like a bad idea. Here's why. This would effectively limit all magic items to a +6 bonus, which makes no sense considering spells like Tenser's Transformation, which can grant an enhancement bonus to strength of up to a +8, some even grant a static +10 enhancement to an ability score. A house rule like this would not only effect maic items, but the spells used to create them as well, and just doesn't make much sense to me. Just my opinion.

 

[Nish]

One thing I don't agree with the new system is the power of the items you can create using the rules as they are. As soon as you have the cash, which mage ISN'T going to create a +6 int/cha item to boost his daily spells and DC's?

You said it yourself: the easiest way to limit item creation is to limit cash. Wizards are already expected to spend a decent amount of gold scribing spells to their spellbooks, item creation feats require even more gold. I have a 7th level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Arms and Armor, and he has yet to create a permanent magic item for himself. The reason is that he has had to spend what little cash he has on scribing spells and scrolls (and he hasn't even done either of those in awhile), Restoration spells to get back lost levels, rations, and other random expenditures incurred fighting the forces of evil.

Besides, the spell required to make a Headband of Intellect is Legend Lore, which is 6th level, and that means a wizard is going to have to get creative if he wants to make one before 11th level.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

What feats do you require? Seriously craft wonderous items pretty much covers everything, you can freely ignore wands, staves, rings, and rods since wonderous can cover them easily even if slightly more expensive. I think a wonderous item wand for example clocks in at any spell spell level x caster level x 900 gps instead of wand any spell 4th level or less spell level x caster level x 750 gps(ever since T&B). The only couple feats you need are arms and armor and wonderous items since wonderous can handle everything except weapon and armor enhancement bonuses. It is really lame but that is how they have it at the moment. I think if they had been a bit more willing to jump away from 2nd edition, they would of done the craft minor object etc. thing described above. And is my prefered method, unless I'm a player in which case I'd prefer to just be able to abuse craft wondeorus items.

 

[Legildur]

What about sharing the load? As a generalisation, most parties will have a Wiz/Sor and a Clr. Just agree between you who will take which item creation feats.

Wiz gets auto Scribe Scroll, so have the Cleric take Brew potion.

Get Wiz to take Craft Wand and Cleric can take Craft Arms and Armor, or Craft Wonderous Item, etc

That way you can help each other out, and share the experience point costs by taking turns.

 

[kreynolds]

The only couple feats you need are arms and armor and wonderous items since wonderous can handle everything except weapon and armor enhancement bonuses.

That's not entirely true. Wondrous Items can grant armor (force), armor (deflection), armor (dodge), which all cost the same as a basic armor enhancement bonus placed on armor. In fact, armor (force) is nearly identical to armor enhancements. Same cost, same functionality, different flavor text. It all works out in the end.

I think a wonderous item wand for example clocks in at any spell spell level x caster level x 900 gps...

Very good point here. Wondrous Items can be made into very fancy/powerful wands. Though in example above, these are command word activation, unlike wands, which are use-activated. Although, the premise might as well be the same because some wands might require command words anyway. Also, ANYONE can use a Wondrous Item Wand.

 

[Voadam]

Wondrous Item limits

Well the limits of what you can make with Craft Wondrous items can be almost unlimited but many DMs only allow the creation of existing magic item types such as out of the DMG/SRD or sourcebooks they have personally approved.

Even in those cases, as a player you can still make bracers of defense with CWI just not rings of protection and "wand" effects.

Some of the distinctions of item types do not make sense. A ring is just a wondrous item of jewelry that can only be used on the two ring slots. Also, rods are just wondrous items that must be held and are considered maces if they have weapon qualities.

Has anybody ever chosen craft rods as a PC?

For the Minor/Medium/Major creation feat chain, if you use this option you can use the tables for the various items as guidelines for price ranges. This will lead to varying prices for different types of items, however (compare armor to weapons for example)Or you can set generic price amounts for each of the levels in which case craft minor lets you make pretty much all potions and scrolls (which I don't think is a bad thing).

For that really 2e feel, create a craft item feat which lets you do any item, or make spells that allow you to craft items.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Wondrous Item limits

Well the limits of what you can make with Craft Wondrous items can be almost unlimited but many DMs only allow the creation of existing magic item types such as out of the DMG/SRD or sourcebooks they have personally approved.

I allow the creation of new items. What fun is creating a magic item when you're high level and it's already been done before?

Even in those cases, as a player you can still make bracers of defense with CWI just not rings of protection and "wand" effects.

Actually, you can make rings with wand effects, but you must have Forge Ring and Craft Wand.

Some of the distinctions of item types do not make sense. A ring is just a wondrous item of jewelry that can only be used on the two ring slots.

Rings are basically themed items. They are also the most common types of magic items that continuously function, such as a Ring of Invisibility.

Also, rods are just wondrous items that must be held and are considered maces if they have weapon qualities.

Has anybody ever chosen craft rods as a PC?

Rods can be really handy. Take a look at the metamagic rods in Tome & Blood. Those things are wicked cool! Otherwise, you're right. Rods are pretty much just wondrous items that can function as a mace or some other weapon.

 

[Voadam]

Ahh, but if you make your own non book items why bother with rods or rings? Make a helmet (Pluto) or cloak (D&D cartoon) of invisibility instead of a ring. After all, you can get CWI at 3rd level and invisibility is only a second level spell, why wait until you qualify for the high level create ring feat. At 3rd level that is really useful. Rings will only be an extra two slots of item holding.

I also see continuously functioning themed boots, belts, bracers, amulets, hats, gloves, robes, and cloaks as a little more common (as a group) than rings.

I think it mostly is a historical holdover from the old 0e,1e and 2e item categories when categories had little effect other than appearance (one spell to make them all and in the darkness bind them).

Of course if you find them while adventuring, rings and rods are great. I love the rod formerly known as the staff of thunder and lightning (except I hate sonics). Rings of protection, elemental command, and wizardry are very useful. I just would never waste a feat to be able to make such items whereas under core rules arms and armor, wands, and CWI are much more attractive and generally utilizable.