Item Creation--Please confirm

[Lord Pendragon]

Okay, I thought I knew how this worked, but the tables in the SRD actually confused me a bit, so I'd appreciate some confirmation.

Statement: If you take any magic item listed in the DMG, you can derive its creation cost by halving the market price (which gives you the gp cost to create), then multplying the market price by 1/25 (which gives you the xp cost to create). Creating the item takes 1 day per 1,000gp of the cost to create.

Is this correct?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Nope!

That's almost always correct, but occasionally, it isn't.

Specifcally, some items have a substantial materials cost built into their price - whether it is for a mundane base (like a golem - you must spend 4,000gp to make the body, and then a further 5,000gp enspelling it; the XP cost is based only on the 5,000gp) or for material components (a wand of Identify has a base price of 750 - and so costs you 30xp and 375gp, but you need to pay the material components cost [100gp] 50 times, as well).

EDIT: Simpler example:

Longsword +1: Market Price: 2,315gp

GP to create: 1,000gp + 315 for Masterwork Longsword = 1,315gp
XP to create: 80

Market Price / 2: 1,157.5gp
Market Price / 25: 92.6

See?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Nope!

That's almost always correct, but occasionally, it isn't.

Specifcally, some items have a substantial materials cost built into their price - whether it is for a mundane base (like a golem - you must spend 4,000gp to make the body, and then a further 5,000gp enspelling it; the XP cost is based only on the 5,000gp) or for material components (a wand of Identify has a base price of 750 - and so costs you 30xp and 375gp, but you need to pay the material components cost [100gp] 50 times, as well).

Neither a golem, nor a wand of identify are listed in the SRD section on Magic Items, which I am assuming is the same as the list of magic items in the DMG (no?) So I'm not particularly worried about them. I just want to know if the formula works for those items which are listed and priced, ready-made, in the SRD/DMG Magic Items section.

But...

Are you telling me that I could buy a wand of identify for 750gp...but it'd cost me 5375gp and 30xp to craft one?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Neither a golem, nor a wand of identify are listed in the SRD section on Magic Items,

Which is why they're called examples ...

I just want to know if the formula works for those items which are listed and priced, ready-made, in the SRD/DMG Magic Items section.

As I said, no, you can't always rely on that formula. Most of the time, it'll be OK, though.

Are you telling me that I could buy a wand of identify for 750gp...but it'd cost me 5375gp and 30xp to craft one?

No. What I meant was that the experience point cost is based on the base price of 750gp. The cost of "magical materials" to make the wand is based on the base price of 750gp. You'd then need to pay extra to cover the material components cost of each charge in the wand. Likewise, you'd need to spend additional XP to cover the XP component's cost of each charge in the wand, if it had any (for instance, a wand of Lesser Planar Ally would cost an additional 100xp x 50 to make, and would suffer a market price of 100 x 50 x 5 gp to cover the additional XP cost).

The market price, however, is equal to the base price + additional stuff. In the case of the Identify wand, it's (1 * 1 * 750 =) 750gp for the base wand + (100 * 50 =) 5,000gp for the material components, for a total of 5,750gp. In the case of the Lesser Planar Ally wand, it's (4 * 7 * 750 =) 21,000 gp (for the base wand) + (100 x 50 x 5 =) 25,000gp for the XP cost, for a grand total of a 46,000gp market price.

Likewise, for other magic items, market price is equal to base price + additional stuff.

Did you see my edit above? It uses a Longsword +1 as an example to show one place the Market / 25, Market / 2 prices don't work. I assume a Longsword +1 counts as part of the SRD Magic Items section ...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I hadn't seen your edit when I made my reply. A +1 longsword definitely counts.

Hrm. I can see this is more complex than I'd like it to be. Still, perhaps I can narrow the field of items and still get something to help me.

Does the formula (1/2 base price in gp, 1/25 base price in xp) work for all Wondrous Items? Reading the section, I believe the cost for the item itself is subsumed in the general cost of the enchantment, and no material components are expended, since relevent spells are never actually cast in the creation process (though they are expended as if cast, for that day).

So can I take any Wondrous Item listed in the SRD/DMG, ready-made, and calculate the cost using that formula?

 

[ElectricDragon]

Here is my understanding of it (which is by no means complete). Market Price equals Base Price except...

Exceptions are: all armors, all weapons, all shields, all golems, and any magic item that has a spell that requires an expensive material component or an xp cost.

There are other exceptions, such as a magic item that requires a very expensive (kind of like masterwork item for armors, weapons, and shields) component to build upon such as figurines of wondrous power, the apparatus of the crab, or (from 1e) the folding boat.

At least this is my understanding of how it works. When Market Price equals Base Price; then your theory works.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I hadn't seen your edit when I made my reply. A +1 longsword definitely counts.

Whew! I was worried there for a second!

So can I take any Wondrous Item listed in the SRD/DMG, ready-made, and calculate the cost using that formula?

Probably. Apart from the stuff menioned by Electric Dragon below, I couldn't find anything else on a quick pass through that section of the SRD.

Was there something in particular you had a question about?

EDIT:

Here's an example of an item where the formulae are specifically called out as not working:

Clay Golem Manual: The book contains animate objects, bless, commune, prayer, and resurrection. The reader may treat her caster level as two levels higher than normal for the purpose of crafting a clay golem. The book supplies 1,540 XP for the creation of a clay golem.

Moderate conjuration, divination, enchantment, and transmutation; CL 11th; Craft Construct, creator must be caster level 11th, animate objects, commune, prayer, resurrection; Price 12,000 gp; Cost 2,150 gp + 1,712 XP; Weight 5 lb.

Notice that the *actual* gp cost to create the item is 2,150gp. That would make its base price 4,300 gp. A 4,300 gp base price implies an XP cost of 172 XP.

Oddly enough, the XP cost to actually create the thing - 1,712 XP - is equal to 1,540 XP (the amount of XP given to the user to create the golem with) + 172 XP (the cost to create the base item).

The additional XP, when priced at the standard 5gp per point, comes out to an increase in the market price of 1,540 * 5 = 7,700 gp. You can probably see this one coming, but 7,700 gp + 4,300 gp (the base price of the base item) is equal to 12,000 gp - the market price.

So, if you wanted to create a "basic" golem manual - as in, one that didn't provide any XP to use in the creation of the golem - it would likely have a market price of 4,300gp, with a cost to create of 2,150 gp and 172 XP.



EDIT:

One last Edit! I swear!

The various Stat Manuals (Manual of Quickness in Action, etc.) have similar lines - a market price and a separate cost to create. The cost to create includes the XP expenditure required by the multiple Wish spells. Likewise, the Mattock and Maul of the Titans have separate Market Price and cost to create lines - to account for the masterwork gargantuan warhammer required to make them, no doubt.

Basically, as near as I can tell, the formulae work without modification on any item that has only a Price line in its description. Any item for which the formulae do not work has a specified Cost to Create line in its description.

 

[dcollins]

No. Look at "Cost to Create" notes for:
- Banded mail of luck
- Javelin of lightning
- Ring of three wishes
- Wand of stoneskin
- Scroll of identify
- Manual of bodily health
etc.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

dcollins, what exactly is your "no" in response to? My original question, or Patryn's posting preceding yours?

Basically, as near as I can tell, the formulae work without modification on any item that has only a Price line in its description. Any item for which the formulae do not work has a specified Cost to Create line in its description.

This helps me out a lot. If I can just use the formula unless there's a specific override, then I'm golden.

Incidentally, no, I didn't have a specific item in mind. Our party has a wizard in it played by a very young and inexperienced player. I wanted to write up a chart of possible items he might want to create (along with crafting time and cost) to help him make some use out of a sum of gold he recently received. So I just wanted to doublecheck my understanding of how to calculate several Wondrous Items. That's the only crafting feat he has, so it's the only one that's particularly relevant, though I asked in general because I'm always trying (with difficulty) to master the Item Creation rules.

 

[dcollins]

The original question.