Item Creation rules

[Borthos]

My groups usually don't use the Item Creation feats, because we normally just ignore them. Our DMs are always willing to work with us on everything, but no one has brought up the item creation feats, so I'm just trying to make sure I understand how it works, in regards to wands mostly.

So a CL 9th wand of Magic Missile costs 6750gp. I pay half that for item creation, right? So creating the wand takes 3375gp and 4 days of work? Am I reading all that right?

 

[Dingo333]

It takes 1 day per 1000g in the base price

Bace price is about how much it costs to buy it (for weapons and armor this is - the MWK armor or weapon you are enchanting)

So your CL 9 Wand of magic missle would be 3375g to craft and take a week to create (dm might cut some time on final day as it is only 3/4 of 1000g, but this is DM choice and not a hard rule)

A +1 longsword would cost 1000g plus the MWK longsword (315 to buy, 105 to forge) and take 2 days (plus time to forge it)

Note also that this crafting assumes an 8 hour work day, you may be able to convince your DM to let you push this, you will need a way to stay up longer then normal. I recomend a ring of sustenance as it limits the amount of sleep you need to 2 hours and (at least I read it as) you don't need to eat or drink. You could argue that this would allow you to get 2 days of work in for 1 24 hour period, though the DM may require twice the rolls needed, 2 spells prepared or 2 slots used, and possible modify the rolls needed unfavorable or require more material needed (5% more would be fair I feel)

 

[jefgorbach]

the other thing to consider is while RAW bases the time on a single 8-hour work shift per day, MANY people routinely do double-shifts in real-life without magic -- so doing so in-game should be just as plausible.

accordingly, I'd rule the aforementioned ring of sustenance/similar magic would allow working around-the-clock; at least or short projects.

 

[Jhaelen]

the other thing to consider is while RAW bases the time on a single 8-hour work shift per day, MANY people routinely do double-shifts in real-life without magic -- so doing so in-game should be just as plausible.

Yup, and have you looked at any of the statistics showing how the number of mistakes go up with every hour people work longer than 8 hours?

If you want realism, item creation needs to have 'realistic' chances of failure.

Besides, item creation time and cost are set to these values in the RAW not because of realism but because of balance. You cannot change one and not change the other, i.e. if you prefer to assume a 16-hour workday, you have to change the rules so you can only create up to 500gp in an 8-hour shift, keeping the net effect the same.

 

[kelseus]

When considering the 8 hour work day restriction, try to think of the rule not as a rule for rule's sake, but as a rule that is structured to reflect real world conditions. The GP amount is really just a place holder for the power of a specific item. The wand in this example takes three days to make not because it costs 3k gp but because it is a very powerful magical item and requires three days of intensive study and concentration where the Wizard in question is exerting all of his knowledge and energy to focus his powers into an inanimate object. This wand is now so powerful that it could easily sway the tide of a large battle in the hands of a mere apprentice wizard (i.e. 1st lvl). The way I look at it is that the 8 hour restriction is there not to be a pain in the ass but b/c the wizard is so completely exhausted by the end of the 8 hours of work he literally can't go on.

I would consider allowing a character with a high Con score to continue: i.e. one additional hour of crafting per Con modifier, but he must succeed in a Con check every hour, say 10 to start and it goes up ever hour by 2, failure means he looses the full day's work and 1/2 the gp and has to start over the next day.

 

[Dingo333]

The wand would take 7 days, not 3

Also, I noted ways for a DM to kinda equalize the benefit of a 16 hour work day, in that was increasing the rolls needed during crafting. A failed roll will either set you back a day or cause a cursed item. Also I noted increasing the money needed to craft it (about 5% with would mean the wand in question would need an additional 337.5 gold to create) At really expensive stuff even 5% could be a bank breaker (+5 Vorpral greatsword would cost 100,000g +5% 5,000g and the cost of the sword and still take 100 days with a 16 hour work day to make)

 

[Scott DeWar]

I would consider allowing a character with a high Con score to continue: i.e. one additional hour of crafting per Con modifier, but he must succeed in a Con check every hour, say 10 to start and it goes up ever hour by 2, failure means he looses the full day's work and 1/2 the gp and has to start over the next day.

intersting thought: something like a forced march effect on crafting?

fort save: (rolled in secret by dm)
dc= 20 + total level of spells to create + number days expended in extended crafting

pass: can do this the next day
fail: 8 hours of work only for this day and next. can try for extended crafting time the day after
fail by 5: snafu-must pay 25% of craft amount to fix
fail by 10: cursed, no noticeable effect
roll 1: fubar: srap the project and start frome scratch
take 20: not on your life!
take 10: no
roll 20: good day of crafting - no roll needed for next day: 16 hours of work for today and tomorrow.

something like that?

example: Heavy Steel Shield +5, ghost touch, arrow deflection
shield: 20 gp
mwk: 150 gp
enchantment: 100,000 gp
total cost: 100,170 gp

after the time and expense to make the mudane shield, there is a base cost of 100 K gp. cost to craft this 50, kgp giving a base of 50 days at 8 hours/day

eatherialness and shield need for special abilities, total spell levels = 10, so fast draft dc = 30
Not to be created by the weak or faint of heart!

 

[jefgorbach]

While I agree the #days,gp were established in RAW as a means of game balance and fully agree they should be applied accordingly for CUSTOM items, feel it only reasonable to question the logic of maintaining those particular limits on Crafters when they might otherwise simply travel to one of the region's larger communities and purchase the same item per common practice.

 

[GlassEye]

My groups usually don't use the Item Creation feats, because we normally just ignore them. Our DMs are always willing to work with us on everything, but no one has brought up the item creation feats, so I'm just trying to make sure I understand how it works, in regards to wands mostly.

So a CL 9th wand of Magic Missile costs 6750gp. I pay half that for item creation, right? So creating the wand takes 3375gp and 4 days of work? Am I reading all that right?

Right, except that the time to craft is from the base price (6750 gp) and not the cost. So it would take seven days to craft. There is a lot of non-RAW stuff floating around in this thread about extending the work day, etc. RAW specifically states you cannot work more than 8 hours in a day. However, you can get more work done in that time, increasing the value of work done per four hour increment by 100% (so 1,000 gp worth of work in four hours instead of eight) by increasing the DC of the skill check by +5. DC for these checks are 5 + caster level, so your wand would have DC 14 or DC 19 if you wanted to complete it in half the time.