Item Creation

[Hadraniel]

A question has come up with item creation. Specifically skill bonus enhancing items. Now some items such as the ring of leaping and eyes of the eagle have spells that for prerquisites. Now are there spells one must have for every skill enhancer or is for those specific items?

This is kind of a emergency since we are doing item creation right now. Any thoughts or answers would be appreciated.

 

[kreynolds]

Check out Table 8-1: Bonuses from Magic on page 177 of the DMG. For example, look at competence bonuses. It gives a sample spell. Also, look at the Potions on page 191 of the DMG. You will note that none of the potions that grant skill bonuses have specific spells as prereqs. Instead, the have caster level prereqs, such as a Potion of Swimming. It doesn't have a specific spell as a prereq. Instead, it has a spellcaster requirement of 6th level, even though the caster level of the potion itself is only 2nd level. Also, look at the Ring of Climbing on page 192 of the DMG. Note that this ring doesn't have spell prereqs or even caster level prereqs. It only requires that the creator of the ring have 5 ranks in Climb. Basically, you, the DM, need to adjudicate what the prereqs of skill bonus magic items are. As a general rule, the prereqs are pretty light. Sorry, there's no hard and fast rule for this. Hope this helps.

Hehe. Man, am I the king of magic items, or what?

 

[Henrix]

Well, there are no generic "skill enhancer" items, ASFAIK, so each item would have to be cleared by your DM.

If I were the DM I would say yes, you need some sort of spell requisite for each item/skill. But I would be very wary of such items.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, there are no generic "skill enhancer" items, ASFAIK, so each item would have to be cleared by your DM.

If I were the DM I would say yes, you need some sort of spell requisite for each item/skill. But I would be very wary of such items.

See my previous post. None of these items I mentioned require specific spells.

 

[Henrix]

See my previous post. None of these items I mentioned require specific spells.

True, true, but as a DM I would not want to let my players loose and give themselves bonuses to every skill just like that.
A potion of swimming is one (one-use) thing, a brooch that gives +10 competence bonus to Spellcraft, Concentration or Animal Empathy is something of another order.

But I think we agree that these things always should be considered carefully by the DM, on an item for item basis.

 

[Hadraniel]

the skills we are questioning is use magic and psionic device. Open locks and Disable Device.

The character making it is a cleric of mystra with a few levels as a wizard.

I figured being a cleric of mystra would give him some expertise in the field of magic. Open locks could be used with knock or find traps and disable device maybe a mending since the skill can be used as enable device. The use psionic device I cannot figure out.

 

[kreynolds]

Hadraniel, try this. Find a spell in any of the WotC books (I can't advise you to go outside these) that grants a skill bonus. There are several. For instance, on page 85 of Masters of the Wild, you will find the Camouflage spell. This is a 1st level ranger spell that grants a +10 competence bonus on Hide checks. Use this spell as a guide to figure the caster level requirements or to create similar custom spells, though you will still need to adjudicate the prereqs somewhat. In the case of the spell above, a caster level requirement of 1st level would be far too low. But I can't stress enough that spells are not a very good guide for items that grant skill bonuses.

Also, don't allow a player to create a magic item that grants a skill bonus if they do not have that skill available to them. So, as a guide, figure up a caster level requirement for a prereq. You can also use the following method: You can create a magic item that grants a maximum skill bonus of x2 the ranks you have in that particular skill. So, if you have a +5 in Disable Device, you could allow a maximum bonus of +10 in a magic item that you create.

 

[Henrix]

the skills we are questioning is use magic and psionic device. Open locks and Disable Device.

The character making it is a cleric of mystra with a few levels as a wizard.

I figured being a cleric of mystra would give him some expertise in the field of magic. Open locks could be used with knock or find traps and disable device maybe a mending since the skill can be used as enable device. The use psionic device I cannot figure out.

Speaking only as if I were the DM, I would hardly allow any item to give a bonus to use magic/psionic* device. Perhaps something that aided the user to, say, simulate a certain class or something.

Open Locks/Disable Device. I think I would like the maker of the item (which I think would have to be a set of Thieve's Tools) to have the skill(s) in question.
And limit the bonus to, oh, I don't know really, one-third the ranks he has in the skill.


* If you're not using the "Psionics is different" rule, are these not the same? As magic and psionic are interchangeable by default?

 

[kreynolds]

Speaking only as if I were the DM, I would hardly allow any item to give a bonus to use magic/psionic* device. Perhaps something that aided the user to, say, simulate a certain class or something.

Why not? It's a skill, powered by intellect, just like any other. A competence bonus fully falls into the category of a bonus that can be applied to any skill.

Open Locks/Disable Device. I think I would like the maker of the item (which I think would have to be a set of Thieve's Tools) to have the skill(s) in question.
And limit the bonus to, oh, I don't know really, one-third the ranks he has in the skill.

I agree that the creator may need to have the skill in question, but I won't apply that to all types of magic items. If you do, you need to rework all of the potions in the DMG that grant skill bonuses. As far as limiting the bonus to one-third the ranks the creator has in the skill, once again, you need to go back and completely rework and recalcuate the costs and requirements and prereqs of several magic items in the DMG. Have fun with that.

* If you're not using the "Psionics is different" rule, are these not the same? As magic and psionic are interchangeable by default?

They are not interchangeable. A non-psionic does not have any access what-so-ever to the Use Psionic Device skill. If you use psionics in the FRCS, the book states that you do not use the psionics is different rule, as the FRCS was designed to allow both of them to exist and function in the same campaign setting. Psionics changes quite a bit when used in FRCS, as it begins to function nearly identical to magic in a few ways. For instance, in the FRCS, psionics can be used to counterspell magic, and neither magic nor psionics will function in an antimagic or dead magic zone.

Either way, a psionic and a spellcaster can both use a magic item that grants a bonus to Intuit Direction, or any other skill that is commonly available to any class. Use Magic Device and Use Psionic Device are exclusive skills and not similar in any way.

 

[Henrix]

Why not? It's a skill, powered by intellect, just like any other. A competence bonus fully falls into the category of a bonus that can be applied to any skill.

Yes, of course. I was not saying that anything in the game mechanics forbade such a bonus, I said that I, if I were the DM, hardly would allow it. At least not without some really good justification.
An item that gives a bonus to use magic device smacks of too much metagame thinking.

I agree that the creator may need to have the skill in question, but I won't apply that to all types of magic items. If you do, you need to rework all of the potions
<snipp>

Do you mind reading what I post, instead of what's in your head?
I wasn't speaking of all items and all skills, I was speaking of Open Locks/Disable Device, a couple of rather specific skills that cannot be used untrained.

Psionics changes quite a bit when used in FRCS, as it begins to function nearly identical to magic in a few ways.

Which _is_ the default for psionics, not just in FR.

And in that case, as I read the Psionics Handbook, you can Use Magic Device with a psionic item, and vice versa.
Hence I would consider them the same skill.

And why this unprecedented antagonism? As far as I can see we basically agree with one another in this matter.