It's Beginning To Look A Lot Like RAVENLOFT

On the Down With D&D podcast, writer Shawn Merwin (who is writing at least one adventure for the next D&D Adventurers Guild season) responded to a query about whether the next season was "gothic" in nature -- "I can neither confirm nor deny that, although I've heard that much was talked about at Gamehole Con in Chris Perkins' seminar ... I think people who have heard that seminar know what's going on, but I still cannot say anything." That seminar, which I largely transcribed here, hinted really strongly at Ravenloft. (thanks to darjr for the scoop)

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In response to comments about Dracula, Frankenstein, and the Wolfman, Merwin said "You like that kind of stuff? I get misty-eyed about it myself."

Of course, none of this is conclusive. But it's hard not to think that - if not Ravenloft itself - something Ravenloft-inspired is coming with the next D&D storyline.

They went on to discuss Baldman Games' (hosts of Winter Fantasy) announcements about D&D events at the convention in February. Regarding the Epic adventure being used to launch the upcoming season, which will debut at that convention, they have the following exchange:

Shawn Merwin: ...if you're into D&D at all, or if you're into Adventurer's League specifically, you will not want to miss.

Christopher Sniezak: I hear there may be blood and stakes involved?

Shawn Merwin: It's definitely possible.

It sounds a little to me like they have discussed this subject in more detail off-air. Whatever the case, these are not the first "gothic" hints we've gotten - it's certainly Beginning To Look A Lot Like Ravenloft, as Bing Crosby once famously sang.

If you want to listen to the full podcast, click here or on Strahd up above.

 

[Benji]

The dev team does love their celebrities these days. /That/ is a little disappointing, because frankly we need another rehash of I6 like we need a stake through the left ventricle.

I really love what's been produced so far but if I had one gripe, it's this. A new unknown villain that represented a new addition to the D&D mythos could be badass. But instead we've already been told that, for example if we get to Greyhawk it'll be Iuz. SO any ravenloft AP- no mystery, it'll be Strahd & maybe Soth (they might save him for Dragonlance). Eberron's gonna be The Lord Of Blades Or Vol. Another Adventure will no doubt have the Devils. Yet for my money, the most interesting Villain of the 5e era so far is Vizeran. A (as far as I know) original creation.

 

[MerricB]

Does Ravenloft work with non-human characters like dragonborn?

No reason it can't.

It's always the group's prerogative to limit the available options to fit the theme. For instance, in the Primeval Thule campaign we're playing, magic-use is very rare indeed, with only one of the PCs having spell capabilities.

My Onnwal campaign has no monks and very few arcane spell-casters due to the theme of the game.

Ravenloft is the same way. Can I think of a rationale why Dragonborn would be in the setting? Absolutely. And I'd do it if it made the game fun, especially for my friend who was never happier than when Dragonborn were introduced into the game. (He first played the original 3E Dragon Disciple in a game about 2002; little did I know that he'd play Dragonborn in most campaigns after they were introduced because he loves the race).

Cheers!

 

[Hussar]

No reason it can't.
/snip

And a thousand setting purists began typing in rage on the Internet because WotC changed the flavour of a setting.

This, probably more than anything else, is why we won't have a full blown Ravenloft setting. There is no way that they are going to limit races for AL play. Just not going to happen. But, if you use RL settings as they are, then they're extremely humanocentric and I can't imagine Tieflings having a very fun time nor any fire genasi. Oh, and let's not forget, we just had the SCAG come out. Hundred or so pages of setting material aimed squarely at those that play AL. Again, I don't think they're going to turn around and in the very next year (whether next season or next, next season) and tell all those people, "Yeah, all that setting material that your like? Yeah, doesn't apply for the next season". Just not going to happen.

My prediction, which setting purists are going to hate, is that they will use Ravenloft as an inspiration, but, the whole Lords of Ravenloft and planar stuff is not going to make the cut. Raven loft will be a dark, gothic scenario set somewhere in the mountainous hinterlands of the Sword Coast. Hard to get to, but that's about it. Might even merge it with Barrier Peaks as well.

I think that those who are thinking that this is the birth of a setting for 5e are going to be disappointed. I could be wrong. It's happened in the past. But, I highly doubt that we're going to get a Ravenloft setting.

 

[MechaPilot]

And a thousand setting purists began typing in rage on the Internet because WotC changed the flavour of a setting.

This, probably more than anything else, is why we won't have a full blown Ravenloft setting. There is no way that they are going to limit races for AL play. Just not going to happen. But, if you use RL settings as they are, then they're extremely humanocentric and I can't imagine Tieflings having a very fun time nor any fire genasi. Oh, and let's not forget, we just had the SCAG come out. Hundred or so pages of setting material aimed squarely at those that play AL. Again, I don't think they're going to turn around and in the very next year (whether next season or next, next season) and tell all those people, "Yeah, all that setting material that your like? Yeah, doesn't apply for the next season". Just not going to happen.

My prediction, which setting purists are going to hate, is that they will use Ravenloft as an inspiration, but, the whole Lords of Ravenloft and planar stuff is not going to make the cut. Raven loft will be a dark, gothic scenario set somewhere in the mountainous hinterlands of the Sword Coast. Hard to get to, but that's about it. Might even merge it with Barrier Peaks as well.

I think that those who are thinking that this is the birth of a setting for 5e are going to be disappointed. I could be wrong. It's happened in the past. But, I highly doubt that we're going to get a Ravenloft setting.

Ravenloft is my favorite setting. I have to say that yes, it always has been rather humanocentric. However, I don't think it has to be humanocentric to the point of excluding other races. Now, I know that some purists will disagree with me (do purists every agree with anyone but other purists?), but such restrictions just are not necessary.

Now, that's not to say that the humanocentric nature of the setting should be expunged. It should stay. However, it needs to be tempered with an alternate perspective. The main reason, as I see it, for the humanocentric nature of the setting is the "fear of the other" aspect of gothic horror. However, in a world of gothic horror, that attitude should not be exclusive to humans. Ravenloft elves and dwarves should likewise be just as wary of other races as humans are. Earning trust across racial and cultural boundaries should be harder in Ravenloft, and it could well be fraught with misunderstanding: for example, a pale-skinned elf could easily seem to be a vampire, especially if she is a merchant who comes to town every year and never seems to age as the townsfolk continue to grow older and older.

The slightly more monstrous races, Tiefling, Dragonborn, Half-Orc, etc. will likely face greater discrimination than the others (although, isn't that what hoods are for?). It would probably be commonplace for people to do whatever the D&D equivalent of crossing themselves is when they see the character. They'd almost definitely move to the other side of the street when they see the character coming. And, it would make sense that businesses would either refuse to serve that character or would significantly over-charge them. In some instances, certainly, the character might be run out of town (possibly with her allies).

I think a significant part of running a racially-inclusive Ravenloft campaign while preserving the "fear the other" flavor is to make advancement of the story possible by an alternate means if they are somehow barred from town.

 

[Remathilis]

Does Ravenloft work with non-human characters like dragonborn?

Not... totally...

Okay, in 2e most domains were human-dominant and xenophobic. A few domains were demi-human (Sithicus, Lord Soth's domain, was wood elf and kender) and one domain, Darkon, was racially intermixed with all the PHB races. The 3e stuff kept with that by giving races an outcast rating that penalized their Charisma checks to interact with others (Usually a -1 to -5). Expedition to Castle Ravenloft, being more "generic" than the setting was, had some NPCs of other races (a dwarven vampire, aasimar paladin, and halfling Vistani to name a few) and the only 4e Ravenloft stuff contained more info on Vistani of other races and a domain with tieflings as the main racial majority.

So I think its possible, and probably preferable, to expand the racial offering and mix the races up more, and I think Ravenloft won't suffer too much. I don't think it matters if the barkeep is an elf, dwarf, or human; he's still not opening the door after dark for strangers. There is no reason domains like Mordent, Lamordia, Borca or Kartakass need be human only. (A few, like Falkovia or Tempest are ok as the inquisition/xenophobia is key to their domains; Falkovia is basically Nazi-esque while Tempest fears all forms of magic.) On the other hand, I think its still very much in flavor to have dragonborn, tieflings, and drow all be feared and forced to hang in the shadows, but not outright attacked.

I mean, the AL ran a series in Hillsfar, where non-humans are captured and sold into slavery, and didn't restrict races. I think RL can be handled...

 

[Remathilis]

My prediction, which setting purists are going to hate, is that they will use Ravenloft as an inspiration, but, the whole Lords of Ravenloft and planar stuff is not going to make the cut. Raven loft will be a dark, gothic scenario set somewhere in the mountainous hinterlands of the Sword Coast. Hard to get to, but that's about it. Might even merge it with Barrier Peaks as well.

Here's why I think your prediction might be at least partially wrong.

Strahd Von Zarovich.

Peruse your 5e PHB; he's mentioned no less than five times: Twice in the PHB (once as the example text in chapter one, once I think the the skill check section) twice in the DMG (both discussing the planar nature of Barovia) and once in the MM (where he gets a whole sidebar discussing him, as well as the vampire art being of him and his Castle.) He got his own Board Game devoted to him. He's a damn rockstar as far as WotC Brand is concerned, right up there with Tiamat, Drizzt, or the Demon Lords. They would be absolutely crazy to do a "gothic vampire" story and NOT use him.

Now, that doesn't mean we're getting a full Ravenloft campaign setting; the same material that discussed Strahd/Barovia/Ravenloft have been mostly silent on the other domains, lords, or elements. Getting a Ravenloft AP doesn't necessarily mean we'll see Lord Godrey, Azalin or any other domain or lord. Its very possible that the AP will just revolve around Strahd and his Castle in some way. But if they intend to do a vampire story, they're doing Strahd. Period. It just fits with their Brand Marketing strategy too much to NOT use him.

 

[DMZ2112]

Does Ravenloft work with non-human characters like dragonborn?

I think [MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION] hit the nail right on the head. Humanocentrism is not nearly as important as irrational fear and hatred of the other.

Here's why I think your prediction might be at least partially wrong.
Strahd Von Zarovich.

You are assuming Strahd and Barovia are not divisible from the Ravenloft setting and this is unfortunately not true. Expedition to Castle Ravenloft makes almost no mention of the Ravenloft setting at all.

Expect to see Strahd, yes. But speaking historically, the presence of Strahd does not indicate the Ravenloft setting, even in products published after the setting was established.

Yet for my money, the most interesting Villain of the 5e era so far is Vizeran. A (as far as I know) original creation.

A valuable lesson that I was first taught in college: you can always do better than what you've already done. I agree with Wizards' assessment that these iconic characters and settings are important to the marketing of the brand but I wonder to what degree positioning them in prominent module roles is important. It would be nice if they were relegated to sourcebook material, pretty artwork, and supporting roles while the developers explored new possibilities in the foreground.

For me, the worst case scenario is D&D becoming a comic book universe. "Thanos again, huh? Anyone got the number of the Avengers' nursing home?" I would hate that. But at the same time I have to admit that it does sell movie tickets.

 

[Remathilis]

You are assuming Strahd and Barovia are not divisible from the Ravenloft setting and this is unfortunately not true. Expedition to Castle Ravenloft makes almost no mention of the Ravenloft setting at all.

Expect to see Strahd, yes. But speaking historically, the presence of Strahd does not indicate the Ravenloft setting, even in products published after the setting was established.

But they just recently reestablished Barovia is a demiplane in the shadowfell in the DMG. Twice.

The truth is, Strahd IS Ravenloft, and they have explicitly spelled out where Strahd is. Therefore, Ravenloft = Strahd = Barovia = demiplane in the Shadowfell. They are not dropping Barovia on Faerun, they aren't doing another domain lord, and they aren't using a dollar-store Strahd clone when the real one is available for brand purposes. The only thing stopping this from being certain is the notion that they could just do something else with undead as baddies completely unrelated to anything Ravenloft altogether.

 

[DMZ2112]

But they just recently reestablished Barovia is a demiplane in the shadowfell in the DMG. Twice.

I am aware. I think we're saying mostly the same thing with different words. I agree that a Castle Ravenloft adventure path seems likely, and that it will be set in the Shadowfell. I am sorry if I was unclear on that point.

But the assertion that the Ravenloft campaign setting is no more than Strahd or Barovia is nonsense. The Shadowfell vs. Ravenloft distinction is significant. A Castle Ravenloft adventure path is not a Ravenloft campaign setting adventure path.

And planar travel aside, if this adventure path does not begin somewhere on the Sword Coast I will be /extremely/ surprised.

 

[darjr]

Question, so there is a blue dracolich in the Ravenloft board game. And GF9 just released a $99 blue dracolich. What does a blue dracolich have to do with Ravenloft? Is it in the fiction.

It was stated that in AL the intro epic at winter fantasy is to retake a town taken over by a blue dracolich.

Is there a connection I'm missing? Other that the Ravenloft board game?