It's Dark Sun

[D&D]

Alot of my thoughts on how they'll impliment various classes and mechanics are already covered, but here's the overall philosophy I would take if I were them:

Don't tinker with individual classes unless absolutely necessary. Instead, tinker with the power sources.

Eg. Preserving/Defiling should be represented by things like feats and paragon paths. That way everybody from sorcerors to swordmages to any random arcane class they come up with in the future can be either a defiler or preserver.

Divine classes as Templar variants. The cleric matches most closely with a Dark Sun templar, but I could easily see the Sorceror Kings imbuing people with divine energy to serve as bodyguards(paladins) or assassins(avengers), or for many other purposes.

The former 'elemental cleric' role is taken over by the primal power source classes. Why would an independant elemental worshiper be called a cleric anyways? Never made much sense to me. Shaman seems to be a much better fit.

The other big key is avoiding getting entangled with old school names. Cleric is a good example of that. Why bother totally remaking the class that happens to be named 'cleric' into the old school elemental cleric when the shaman is far closer to it already and the cleric class can be reflavored into templar, which it matches pretty closely? The fighter is another good example. Dark Sun fighters were leaders of armies, generals, and the like. We've already got a class that does that: the Warlord. Additionally, the fighter fills the Dark Sun gladiator role pretty well, so why bother making a gladiator class? Just give the fighter some gladiator flavored stuff. 4e rogues can easily fill the Dark Sun bard role, so we shouldn't see the 4e bard class rebuilt to look like the Dark Sun bard either.

A ton of good points as to how to think about the new setting.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

The expanded setting was actually not too bad from the POV of actually running a game in practical terms.

The city states in the original box were a little too much of draconian police states with absolute and total control over all life within their borders, right down to the water people drank. Players like to rock the boat, they don't take well to backing down from *anything*. A typical group of typical player characters in the setting wasn't believeable at all. They would act like they act, and the crackdown that the setting would suggest should be forthcoming should be by all rights swift, brutal, and overwhelming.
.

That's' exactly what I LIKE about Dark Sun! As said before, party got driven off Athas after doing dumb stuff at lvl 7. I was nice enough to give them a chance TO find a portal to the Abyss.

Yes, they are "Police states" but they are very corrupt police states ad the Templars don't give a hoot if you commit every crime under the Sun EXCEPT: disrupt the city, don't pay the templars bribes/ego, or do anything that would upset the sorceror king (which is treason, disrupting the city a lot, too much knowledge, or arcane magic).

you can kill every dirt bag in town, long as it's done quietly and doens't disrupt things, the templars (as a group) don't care!
Adventuring must be done more circumspect, that's all

 

[Aloïsius]

Feywild, Gnomes and Eladrins in Dark Sun : they live in the Feywild, and either the Feywild is sealed, or it's NOT the standard feywild.
It could be like this :
As the feywild is a reflection of the prime world... Let's say that the Formorians have won, Eladrins are fugitives nomads (like their elven cousins) trying to escape the Lords of the feywild and gnomes are just enslaved as usually. Passages to and from the feywild are nearly impossible (read PC only).
Another possibility for gnomes, as 4e gnomes have little resemblance with the 2e or 3e ones : they are just living among the halflings, being their shaman/druid or something like that. Invisible cannibal savage midget ? Yuk !

Deva, Tiefling :
Hum... I can imagine Tiefling being tainted by the sorcerers kings blood, or something like that. As for Deva, I have no idea.

 

[Stogoe]

Since the Divine Power Source is passed down from worshiper to worshiper in 4e, instead of directly granted every morning by the gods, they could describe Divine classes as rare in the setting and not have to completely rebuild them into what should be Elemental Power Source classes.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Amoral Police State
I'm on board with the "amoral police states aren't a bad thing" perspective. You don't need a free city. Having a free city gives you relief. You should not get relief. DEATH is your relief. Existence is suffering.

Just don't cause unrest, and you'll be fine.

Of course, causing unrest is fun, and suitable for a Dark Sun epic-level campaign, I'd think. Like you can end your campaign killing Orcus, you can end your campaign killing the sorcerer-king of Tyr. But that's for you to do, in your game, not for the campaign to assume.

Preserving/Defiling

What's with this "feat" or "paragon path" nonsense?

Every user of the arcane power source on Dark Sun should only have the option to drain their own life, or the life of things around them.

Period.

It's not an option you turn on or off. It's not something you can do for more power. It's intrinsic to the nature of the world. Arcane magic is life-force. If you want to cast a fireball, you will kill things around you, or gradually kill yourself.

I can see this as being an HP-drain kind of system, where the arcane powers cost HP to use. That HP can come from you -- or from others.

The Feywild
Athas should be isolated from the planes. Full. Effin'. Stop. You do not go frolicking in the lands of the fomorians, unless the fomorians are THERE, NOW, living in the same world, on the same world, with the same burning dark sphere overhead, as you are. There is no escape. There are no portals. There is no worldfall. (yes, individual campaigns can be exceptions, but as a rule, no).

The planes are not your playground. Athas itself is.

 

[Hawke]

Feywild, Gnomes and Eladrins in Dark Sun : they live in the Feywild, and either the Feywild is sealed, or it's NOT the standard feywild.
It could be like this :
As the feywild is a reflection of the prime world... Let's say that the Formorians have won, Eladrins are fugitives nomads (like their elven cousins) trying to escape the Lords of the feywild and gnomes are just enslaved as usually. Passages to and from the feywild are nearly impossible (read PC only).

Holy crap that's a cool idea.

Also - what if the shadowfell and feywild were one?

what if defiling destroyed the connections to the feywild, so there are none (or are there?)

 

[Bold or Stupid]

I don't know Darksun well, but I don't think the the Feywild is a bad fit. The Feywild is not a plain of verdent forests, it's wild unpredictable tricksy nature. The DS Feywild is a desert like the world but full of mirages and untrustworthy fey, it's a place of madness and lies.

 

[ArmoredSaint]

Weird weapons abound, metal was nowhere, and wearing armor was a death sentence....

It makes me sad that these horrible things are attractions for some fans. Features like those in a setting will drive me away. I could never enjoy a setting in which I can't play my beloved heavily-armoured knight characters. The setting's appeal seems to revolve around "Whee! It's not Tolkien! It's Different!" Too different for me, I'm afraid...

I do not like Dark Sun, and for me, this is unwelcome news. I hate to see WotC devoting resources to something like this when they ought to be cranking out more heavily-armoured awesomeness. I still feel cheated that they have so far released very little in the way of new classes/features/feats/options in 4E for those of us who like the knight in shining armour character archetype. I hold out some feeble hope that Martial Power II will finally bring the awesome that I crave for my heavy armour PCs, but if not, then I will abandon the D&D brand; WotC will have at last demonstrated to me that they want to leave my playing style behind.

 

[Aloïsius]

I don't know Darksun well, but I don't think the the Feywild is a bad fit. The Feywild is not a plain of verdent forests, it's wild unpredictable tricksy nature. The DS Feywild is a desert like the world but full of mirages and untrustworthy fey, it's a place of madness and lies.

Yes, something like that. The place were you "are" when you sleep in the desert and have nighmares. And when you awake, you realize it was not an ordinary nightmare and that the things are eating you while laughing in the dark.
The addition of the feywild (and the shadowfell) to darksun won't be a problem for me, as long as it's nicely done. Kamikaze Midget says "no escapes" : those are not escape, those are dangers and traps, and you can't decide do go (or interact) there, the DM do.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Hmm, if there was some manner of Feywild type plane, or any kind of plane beside Athas. I would love to have mirages be the entrances and exits to it. Just imagine blindly following a mirage thinking it leads you to shelter, and you end up in a entirely different world. Perhaps a even harsher one (Feywild is nature extreme, so that would mean really harsh in Dark Sun).