It's No Longer A Joke

[Fedifensor]

So you've never had a gamer "tell you about their character" before? You know, the Half Demon Paladin Priest of Bane who is 42nd level & has Tiamat as a lap dragon, rules over Dmjimsworld & summer's in the Demon Web Pits, cause you know Lloth is hawt! You didn't know that some people had already "beaten D&D"?

Yeah, that's kind of the point of my post. You used to be able to laugh at those people, because they were claiming to 'win' an open-ended game. Now, there is an ending built into the rules.

 

[hong]

True. However, that's something decided by the gamemaster, and the character could always be brought back in a future game. In this case, the rules state that when you complete a specific in-game task, you're done.

... a specific, in-game task that may or may not be implemented in any particular campaign, at the choice of the DM and players. There is a level cap, not a victory condition.

 

[marune]

True. However, that's something decided by the gamemaster, and the character could always be brought back in a future game. In this case, the rules state that when you complete a specific in-game task, you're done.

To make sure I'm understood, epic destinies are a great addition to D&D because they formalize the end-game, which IMHO is important in all RPG, but even more in gamist-oriented ones.

 

[PeterWeller]

Looks to me like the presmises of the old Immortals box set from B/X/C/M/I days, wrappered into the newest edition. If this fits your definition of "win", the concept came around years ago.

It also reminds me of levels 21-30 from that old Dark Sun sourcebook. (Dragon Kings?)

 

[Center-of-All]

Ummm, yeath, BECMI had 'winning' for at least a decade and a half before this came out.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Not too different than any other edition. Hit name level and retire.

Did you ever retire at name level? Where did that idea come from?

Certainly supplement 1 (Greyhawk) had all those cleric spells and wizard spells which, along with exp charts when past 'name' level and way up to 18th level (at least). OD&D basically expected people to adventure past 'name' level; I never met anyone who stopped when they reached it.

 

[Darkness]

One could argue that in any edition of D&D, a campaign that ends without a TPK is a win.

Sometimes it's even possible to achieve victory in a campaign and still be TPK'd. This is highly situational, of course.
Examples: All remaining PCs die from the balor's death throes after killing it; the last surviving PC takes the artifact and jumps into the volcano that can destroy it; you defeated the master villain but the trap on his treasure does you in; etc.

 

[Minigiant]

I must have won D&D before then. One of my past PC hit epic, took a custom PRC, and became a Sun. You're pretty legendary when you're the (insert descriptive adjective) SUN! I'd love to fight evil but I'm busy heating the planet and allowing photosynthesis.

 

[Hussar]

Did you ever retire at name level? Where did that idea come from?

Certainly supplement 1 (Greyhawk) had all those cleric spells and wizard spells which, along with exp charts when past 'name' level and way up to 18th level (at least). OD&D basically expected people to adventure past 'name' level; I never met anyone who stopped when they reached it.

Each and every campaign I ever played in.

We'd hit about 12th level or so, 1e, 2e, Basic/Expert, didn't matter and the campaign would end. Going beyond that was just pointless. When the fighter is single handedly destroying Ancient Huge Red dragons, there just wasn't much to do beyond name level.

You got your keep, you got your followers and started over.

And, I highly, highly doubt I'm the only one who played like this.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

As a couple of other posters mentioned, Frank Mentzer's Immortals Set for BECMI had an endgame way back in 1986.

(All you had to do was reach level 30ish, become Immortal, rise to the rank of Hierarch, become mortal again, and do the whole thing a second time. Piece of cake. )