"It's not a question of where it grips it..."

[STARP_JVP]

What's the dumbest argument with a PC or DM you've had regarding something scientific, ie. what a player can and can't do according to the laws of physics/time/causality, whatever.

For me, it is STARP's infamous "Napalm" argument.

We will call the DM 'Mac'. I am playing, as is my friend, who we'll call "Napalm Ned". Napalm Ned was in possession of some soap and some lamp oil. Mac put us up against a lot of nasty, icky things (I forget what). Running low on ammo and spells, Napalm Ned had a brilliant idea. He wanted to use his lamp oil and soap to create napalm.

Now, the argument was stupid on three fronts. First, it was stupid because you can't make napalm with soap and lamp oil. Secondly, there's a perfectly good substitute for napalm in the form of alchemists' fire (called Greek Fire Oil in them days). And thirdly, Napalm Ned's PC wouldn't have known that Napalm existed, what with it being the middle ages and all. Napalm Ned was adamant he should be able to do it - he had the gear and he had 18 Intelligence, thereby making him smart enough to do it. Never mind explaining how he knew of the existence of Napalm. Never mind that his plan was stupid. For about an hour, Mac and Napalm Ned argued back and forth about this plan, with me supporting Mac all the way. It was going nowhere. Finally, Mac said "OK, so you want to make Napalm?"
"Yes," said Napalm Ned.
"Well you can't. Live with it."
To this day, Napalm Ned believes he was hard done by.

I dunno, some people...

 

[The Thayan Menace]

A Shady Player & Shady Magic

I just had an argument with a player in my Thayan campaign who felt that his monk could simply walk into any old magic shop and purchase an elixir of hiding, elixir of sneaking, and a potion of invisibility.

I told him that these were effectively black-market items and that he would need to find a shady contact to purchase them. So far, he's been having bad luck doing so ... and he blames me for his habit of asking the wrong people and making bad Gather Information rolls.

Somewhere along the way, he got all pissy and sent me an e-mail saying something like, "You're being unfair. Low level items are easy to get. This is Thay."

I countered by saying, "No rational civilization, even an evil one, will permit the open sale of magic items that are typically used for assassination, spying, and theft. You'll have to find another way of getting these potions."

Afterward, he sent me another e-mail saying, "I NEVER asked that finding these items be easy, only reasonable."

I just looked at his previous e-mail (see above) and laughed ....

 

[Aeric]

I once played in a Mekton game where a ground tank the size of an aircraft carrier got a Dodge roll. We were in our mecha, which were about 40-50' tall, firing cannons and missiles at this thing, and it was dodging them left and right. We argued the feasibility of a vehicle the size of the U.S.S. Lexington bobbing and weaving and otherwise maneuvering defensively to avoid fire. His arguement was that, as a mecha itself (having been built using the same construction rules as our humanoid suits), it got a dodge roll same as us.

 

[arwink]

"You can't attack me, I have 22 Intelligence."

 

[Kahuna Burger]

I just had an argument with a player in my Thayan campaign who felt that his monk could simply walk into any old magic shop and purchase an elixir of hiding, elixir of sneaking, and a potion of invisibility.

I told him that these were effectively black-market items and that he would need to find a shady contact to purchase them. So far, he's been having bad luck doing so ... and he blames me for his habit of asking the wrong people and making bad Gather Information rolls.

Somewhere along the way, he got all pissy and sent me an e-mail saying something like, "You're being unfair. Low level items are easy to get. This is Thay."

I countered by saying, "No rational civilization, even an evil one, will permit the open sale of magic items that are typically used for assassination, spying, and theft. You'll have to find another way of getting these potions."

Afterward, he sent me another e-mail saying, "I NEVER asked that finding these items be easy, only reasonable."

I just looked at his previous e-mail (see above) and laughed ....

so you introduced a house rule on the availablity and price of standard DMG items and didn't tell anyone until it came into play... and then stated it as a obvious thing instead of a houserule... and its annoying your player.

The T.A.R.R.* would disagree with you on the open sale of items used for assassination, spying and theft, btw. In their january newsletter, for instance, they pointed out that since Hide and Move Silent checks typically outstrip Spot and Listen even without magic items in the mix, the best way for a law abiding citizen to protect their property and lives is to use hidden guards to lull theives and assassins into revealing themselves. Additionally, legitamate sport hunters and those protecting Thay from wandering monsters often need magical assistance to get within the 30 foot range which allows the most effective use of special attacks without being spotted.

*Thayan Association fo Rangers and Rogues (not thieves!)

 

[Voadam]

"If you kill one sheep, the whole flock dies from fright. Its true!" Said by another player in a vampire game.

The DM responded, "Not in my world, consider these super sheep if you want to, but they won't die from fright."

 

[RangerWickett]

I once made 'napalm' by sticking pieces of a styrofoam cooler into a cup full of gasoline. I think we mixed in a bit too much styrofoam, because when we tried to splash the goop on the ground and light it, it just kinda . . . fell out, like a jello mold.

Mm. Burning Jell-O.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Somewhere along the way, he got all pissy and sent me an e-mail saying something like, "You're being unfair. Low level items are easy to get. This is Thay."

I countered by saying, "No rational civilization, even an evil one, will permit the open sale of magic items that are typically used for assassination, spying, and theft. You'll have to find another way of getting these potions."

Why not just MAKE THE FREAKING ITEMS? This isn't 2e anymore, you can make items now!

As for them being used to steal and assassinate, I disagree. Magic is magic.

But why would he need to HIDE when he is INVISIBLE...?

 

[Desdichado]

And thirdly, Napalm Ned's PC wouldn't have known that Napalm existed, what with it being the middle ages and all.

Middle Ages of what? Is this a D&D game, or an Ars Magica one?

 

[iwatt]

Middle Ages of what? Is this a D&D game, or an Ars Magica one?

You have a point in that using middle ages as an argument for or against something in a game as anachronistic as DnD isn't the best way to go.

But DnD has defined the technology level regarding alchemical inflamable materials: it's called alchemist fire. Which anyways is probably better than anything involving soap and lamp oil

His argument kind of reminds me of the first campaign I ever played in. My character got a two handed electrical sword. he was the typical big hulking barabarian, but I wanted to use the everlasting electrical current, some copper wire, and a high school level of electrophysics top statr powering up stuff.

My DM patiently explained that I was going against the genre.