D&D 5E It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)

[Asisreo]

If there's no chance of failure, or consequences, then what's the point of doing it? No matter what the ranger say they'll reach their destination without issue.

That's not true. Rangers just can't get most by nonmagical means in their favored terrain. Which gives you a perfect way to actually have a Ranger party use the Ranger's expertise in Survival without instantly not getting lost.

Sprinkle a bit of magic in the forest. It doesn't have to be as punishing as The Lost Woods ala Zelda but it could be something as simple as a magical mist or ever-changing terrain. The book even gives spells that an NPC could have cast to make a certain area magically influenced.

Because, honestly? If you're not putting them through a magically inclined area for the purposes of getting lost, there really wasn't any threat of being lost to begin with.

 

[Shardstone]

I went through and counted it for interest's sake.

Out of a counted 55 spells, 28 are Concentration. That's more than half the Ranger spell list. And now I have to choose between using half my spell list or damage increase? Its the exact same problem with relying on Hunter's Mark, it just doesn't cost a spell slot to use, but chances are if you cast a spell you won't be using Favored Foe anymore, since half your spells are Concentration!

EDIT: Recounted and there were 55, not 52, total ranger spells. Sorry!

 

[Sacrosanct]

I went through and counted it for interest's sake.

Out of a counted 52 spells, 28 are Concentration. That's more than half the Ranger spell list. And now I have to choose between using half my spell list or damage increase? Its the exact same problem with relying on Hunter's Mark, it just doesn't cost a spell slot to use, but chances are if you cast a spell you won't be using Favored Foe anymore, since half your spells are Concentration!

How many of those concentration spells are useful out of combat, and thus wouldn't be competing with FF anyway?

 

[Undrave]

Now you're shifting the goal posts. First you were arguing that anything that is pre-resolved isn't worth talking about in a game, and now you're saying it's not worth a class feature. Which I disagree with as well.

I'd posit that an ability that automatically saves your party from certain death (or a least really bad things from happening) is worth a class feature, regardless if you have to roll for it or not.

It can be fun to do stuff that has no consequence, to get into character... but that stuff shouldn't be equivalent to class features with more mechanical hooks, because those don't serve the same purpose. Favoured Terrain is about on par with a Rogue's Thieves Cant. It's there, it's cool and flavourful, but ultimately it doesn't engage the player in any sort of decision. It applies or it doesn't, and that's it. You can dress it up in all the fancy roleplaying you want, it's still a poor GAME element. If the features works then nobody knows they were even in danger of death so there's no thrill, and no dramatic impact, it's BORING. At best the Ranger gets to monologue about how AWSOME they supposedly are. The Ranger player might as well play a Fighter with the Outlander background and they can just hire an NPC to guide them.

At least then there's a chance the NPC is leading them into an ambush or something. That'd be more interesting.

 

[Shardstone]

How many of those concentration spells are useful out of combat, and thus wouldn't be competing with FF anyway?

So, first let's count the number of competitive combat spells.

There are 25 combat spells. I upped the number a bit by adding ones that might not always be used, but could be, like Plant Growth (which, by the way, is NOT concentration!).

Of those 25 combat spells, 5 spells are NOT Concentration.

Of those 5 spells, 1 is 2nd level, 2 are 3rd level, and 2 are 5th level.

This means your only combat viable spell that can be used until 9th level is, drum rollllllll, CORDON OF ARROWS!

That is it! Your other 20 combat spells can't be used because of Favored Foe.

Does this count as being objectively bad yet?

 

[Shardstone]

If you include cure wounds, that's +1 spell you can use in combat. Not sure if I should include it or not, but if we throw that into the bin, at least that's a +1 haha.

 

[DnD Warlord]

Sorry to jump in but did that say Psidie?!? I thought people said that version died?!? Please I must know if someone has the leak

 

[Shardstone]

Sorry to jump in but did that say Psidie?!? I thought people said that version died?!? Please I must know if someone has the leak

Psidie is still here! You get twice your Proficiency in psi die and they disappear whenever you use them instead of when you roll a 1 too many times.

 

[Sacrosanct]

So, first let's count the number of competitive combat spells.

There are 25 combat spells. I upped the number a bit by adding ones that might not always be used, but could be, like Plant Growth (which, by the way, is NOT concentration!).

Of those 25 combat spells, 5 spells are NOT Concentration.

Of those 5 spells, 1 is 2nd level, 2 are 3rd level, and 2 are 5th level.

This means your only combat viable spell that can be used until 9th level is, drum rollllllll, CORDON OF ARROWS!

That is it! Your other 20 combat spells can't be used because of Favored Foe.

Does this count as being objectively bad yet?

Well, FF is a limited resource as well, right? So are spells. FF gives you extra combat utility over now. So even if you take the current ranger who uses all their spells on HM first, when they are out of spells, they are done. While the revised ranger can still use FF.

OR

The ranger can use FF instead of HM on occasion, and use another spell when they need it when an appropirate scenario is presented. Which IME, happens a lot.

An adventuring day has more than one combat encounter.

 

[Shardstone]

Well, FF is a limited resource as well, right? So are spells. FF gives you extra combat utility over now. So even if you take the current ranger who uses all their spells on HM first, when they are out of spells, they are done. While the revised ranger can still use FF.

An adventuring day has more than one combat encounter.

Favored Foe does have limited uses, which is another problem - you can only use it your Prof bonus per long rest!

Compare this to the Paladin, who uses spell slots for their iconic feature, and whose spell slots jack up the power considerably, and that is NOT concentration, and I see a bit of a discrepancy.

Likewise, I find it a little silly that the Ranger cannot use its limited repertoire of spells alongside their class features. Paladins can smite and use smite spells at the same time, and Artificers can use their infusions while having concentration spells active. Paladins can even smite more than once per turn! Why is it that Rangers are the only ones who get a core mechanic that so heavily runs interference with spellcasting? Seems like an uneven design to me!