D&D 5E It's official, WOTC hates Rangers (Tasha's version of Favored Foe is GARBAGE)

If there's no incentive to continue past 5th level in a class, that is a bad class in my book. Most campaigns proceed to between levels 9-12.

Favoured Foe provides an incentive though. The damage scales at levels 6 and 14. The new Deft Explorer also scales at levels 6 and 10, Ranger Spellcasting has gotten significantly better as well with the new spells added to the list (and spellcasting scales with level) and for Beastmasters, your Beast Pet scales as well.

The new level 10 ability that replaces Hide in Plain sight is extremely powerful as well - Bonus action invisibility that isnt broken when you attack, and lasts till the start of your next turn.

There is enough there to keep me interested till 10th level at least, after than point it's a question of 'do I want those high level spells and Archetype features, and a more useful capstone now' and that might be enough to motivate me to stay in the class all the way through to 20th.
 

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yes stacking is a problem.
But, this is a poor way to fix that.
UA was pretty close to home.

Here is my idea,

Foe hunter:
You learn Hunters mark spell,
you can cast that spell without concentration and spell components.
As a reaction when you hit a target with weapon attack you can cast hunters mark on that target(and apply extra damage on that attack) if you do not have Hunters mark active already.
You can do this kind of casting number of times per long rest equal to you wis bonus(min 1 per long rest).

That is, you can cast HM at 1st level only by this way, as you still do not have spell slots. Unless multi class or some other thing.

Aaand watch every single martial class dip Ranger for 1 level to get that ability (especially Monks, who have good Wisdoms, can use it with Flurry and easily deal 2d8+6d6+12 damage in a single turn at 6th level).
 

Horwath

Legend
Aaand watch every single martial class dip Ranger for 1 level to get that ability (especially Monks, who have good Wisdoms, can use it with Flurry and easily deal 2d8+6d6+12 damage in a single turn at 6th level).
a multi class exploit that would help in combination of 2 worst classes in PHB?
sign me up.

Same can be said that every wizard could take 1st level of fighter and then be wizard for best armor and constitution saves.
Or 2 levels of warlock and then sorcerer/paladin?
Or 2 levels of paladin and then warlock/sorcerer?

so maybe multi classing that allows level difference of more than 1 level between classes is the problem, not suggested 1st level ranger features.
 


jayoungr

Legend
Supporter
If the leaks are accurate, I don't see what the big deal is.
I've been playing a ranger lately, and the problem as I see it is that rangers have a LOT of competition for that one single thing they can concentrate on. The vast majority of spells available to the ranger are concentration spells, so adding yet another concentration ability doesn't help at all, unless it turns out that you can maintain this and cast a concentration spell at the same time.
 

Kurotowa

Legend
a multi class exploit that would help in combination of 2 worst classes in PHB?
sign me up.

The thing about multi-class exploits is that they're open ended. Once you let one into the ecosystem it persists there until it gets errata or the edition ends. Every future design choice has to be made with consideration of all those open ended exploits, and that limits what can be done. Conversely, if you close those exploits before they enter the ecosystem then you're future proofing your game system. Future additions can be designed based on their own merits or flaws, not how they interface with the existing matrix of optimal exploits that the dominant builds are centered on.

The current game Devs seem very set on not repeating the flaws of late 3e, and I wholly support them in this.
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
Well that's becaue 95% of it is open end and not specific. 5e says "do whatever you want", paartially codified 3 aspects of exploration, and forces DMs to do the rest unguided.

D&D only gets away with it in dungeons because players only expect traps.
Its not just in dungeons, though. The guidance for building an explorable world is all printed, it's just not printed in a way someone that wants to open the book and say "let's prepare 'exploration'" can do in the same way someone can for combat.

Exploration isn't traveling in a dungeon, touching traps, or finding gold. Exploration is interacting with the world in a way that isn't combat or socializing.
The DMG gives a good guide to handling exploration in such regards. They tell you how to build the world, which is important if your players are to interact with it, as well as how to facilitate their interactions. The DMG tells you to start with a home base out of a selection, each with codified population size, local governments, and expected facilities. It also tells you how to create a diverse map with interesting locales and sites.

This fits into the Ranger because a well-prepared adventure will have many places to explore that isn't supposed to be set-in-stone. Even in a story-driven campaign, the adventurers can explore the mountains rather than the forest when going to their destination, while they have a rich history in each.
The mountains may be home to dwarves which ride giant lizards and create magic weapons while the forest may be filled with elves who have aided several celestials in exchange for fruitful harvests. Neither route is necessarily better than the other without the Ranger, but the Ranger can use their expertise within whichever is their favored terrain to effectively resolve a good portion of DM-prewritten conflicts. It's the same principle as a paladin preferring to join a dragon's side in combat rather than the Lich's, one side has a very favorable matchup.
But with a hastened campaign, the forest is merely a forest and the mountains are merely the mountains. Nothing more. In such a campaign, the only difference is the time or maybe getting lost. But with a Ranger, it will feel like a nonissue and the campaign really wasn't affected by the Ranger.

I'm not arguing the DMG did a good job relaying important or complete exploration information. Far from it. I actually dislike the way exploration was handled as well. But I moreso feel that Rangers are more of a victim on the DM's side than just the system as a whole. As such, I suggest better, clearer exploration guidance as opposed to changing the system (via "fixes") or by adding exploration subsections (ala Skill Challenges). What I suggest are more streamlined approaches to making a full campaign world from scratch, though I think WoTC may be more inclined to just have people make crappy homebrews so they can sell modules.
 

I have a hard time seeing how the Ranger wouldn't just do better in the exploration pillar at the things they are going to be good at by just having Exerptise in Perception and Survival. The Rogue can get that, the Barbarian (at least per UA: class variants) can get that.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, because I hate expertise, but it's better than Natural Explorer.
 

Asisreo

Patron Badass
I have a hard time seeing how the Ranger wouldn't just do better in the exploration pillar at the things they are going to be good at by just having Exerptise in Perception and Survival. The Rogue can get that, the Barbarian (at least per UA: class variants) can get that.

And I can't believe I'm saying this, because I hate expertise, but it's better than Natural Explorer.
Natural Explorer is expertise in Perception and Survival. It's also expertise in Nature, Animal Handling, Insight, Medicine, History, Investigation, and Arcana so long as you have the required proficiency first.

The caveat is needing it to relate to your favored terrain. The good news is that it easily can if you're aware of what "related" means.

If you face a hobgoblin and need to make an insight check in the artic but your favored terrain is desert, you still get the expertise because hobgoblins are naturally related to desert environments. If you need to craft a trap, so long as it relates to your favored terrain, the skill check required for it still uses expertise.

It's an important distinction that the expertise don't activate when its in your favored terrain, it activates when its related to your favored terrain.
 

Natural Explorer just says you don't have any problems and everything goes smoothly. Therefore there is little opportunity to be awesome.

It's a terrible abiltiy because it takes away the opportunity of the Ranger to shine.

It comes with all the fun pre-optimised out of it.

"Ok Ranger. Your time to shine. Roll three navigation checks to see if you can find your way throuh the perilous forest"
"It's my favoured terrain. I can't get lost"
"Oh, okay then. But it's difficult going to find a path. Make roll to see if you can find an easy path - otherwise it will be a slow journey".
"Difficult terrain doesn't slow us".
"Oh, ok then. But since you are so busy finding the path, someone else will have to forage for food. Who else has Survival?"
"Actually I can do that at the same time".
"Oh, ok. I guess you arrive at the dungeon then. A big stone ruined tower looms..."
 
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