I've done it, my very first TPK...

[AddizAbeba]

Ok, so I've really done it now. I TPK-ed my party. Or they TPK-ed themselves, depending on how you look at it.

And it even happened with a random encounter. I am wondering all the time "why didn't I pull my punches? Why didn't I lower his hitpoints or some other simple DM trick?"

Party: Human Rogue 6, Human Ranger 7 (with Dire Wolf), Elf wiz3/clr3/mth2, Human Rog1/Clr7

Encounter: One young red dragon (supposedly CR6) on a open area in the foothills of the biggest mountain range of my continent.

I thought: It looks a bit tough (+19 to hit, 6 attacks), but they should be able to win this.

I played the red dragon as described: cocky, haughty, self-assured. It spotted the party, flew low over them to detect magic, and then landed on a spot where it could breath on them as easy as possible. The scattered a little when they spotted the dragon, so it could only catch 2 of them (ranger and wolf). It first asked them each for their strongest magic item, or else. They of course declined the offer

Then I just went all-out with the beast, going melee most of the time (it breathed twice, once at the start and once two rounds later). Battle lasted about 6 rounds.

They managed to do it a lot of damage, and at one moment I even rolled a sort-of morale check for the dragon, which it did not fail.

The stupid thing is, the first breath dropped the rog6, while I expected him to save. He stabilized at -7.
The dragon then meleed the wolf to dying, and the ranger died. The cleric was doing well, but the theurge basically only mm-ed the beast twice (Oh, and he cast a fireball, which of course invoked the reaction "mmm.. nice and warm!").

The thing is, he forgot about his wand of ice storm, even when I told him he did not really have to cast a spell, "there are other options".

When the dragon moved over to the Theurge, he cast a phantom steed, to try to get away, but that of course only gave the dragon a round extra, and enabled him to full-attack the Theurge. exit.

Then the Cleric only needed to hit him once very good with a crossbow shot (the dragon had 17hp left), he rolled a 20 and confirmed. Then he did (of course) not roll maximum damage (13), and stupid me did not lower the dragon HP's on the spot to let it die by this great shot.

End result, TPK, dragon 4 hp left, and a nice bag of goodies to take home to his new founded lair (he had just left his parent's lair, so he wanted to make some fortune).

Should I have pulled some punches (like 'forgetting' wing attacks, or tail attacks), or is my party just too stupid? It was the party's very first dragon... (only one player had ever played a dragon-encounter before)

Anyway, they are not angry at me (very important) and now a player is going to take over DM-ing from me for a while, and we'll probably start at level 1 characters again. For me it's a bit of a relief that the burden of DM-ing has fallen off of my shoulders, at least for a little/long while.

Well, if you made it this far, thanks for listening to me.

Ruud (ex-DM)


Note: I roll everything in the open, except for hidden skill checks and such.

 

[northrundicandus]

If DM's keep pulling their punches players will never learn.

Player skill is very important!

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Well-- I'd say if your party was using fireball on a red dragon... they may not deserve to die... they are a little on the not so smart side... ESPECIALLY if they were not using their wand of ice storm... ish...

If I were the players-- I'd be a little bitter... but, in the end, it wasn't too powerful for them it was just bad tactics... not the DM's fault. So, I'd get over it and hope that you would have us roll up new characters to continue in the previous hero's shoes.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I say let the dice fall where they may. A little death is a good thing, it builds character (while destroying characterS). Sometimes, the world is a dangerous place and luck doesn't go the way of the heroes.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Fireball on a red dragon? Your players proably haven't played d&d very long. Dragons in general should be about 1 or CRs higher than what is listed in the MM. That said the PCs should still have been able to win. But sometimes you get bad luck or make one bad move and you're screwed. Occaisonally a party should be wiped out so that it doesn't seem like everyone makes it to 20th level. I might consider starting above level 1 but thats just from my perspective.

 

[molonel]

A wizard (well, Mystic Theurge, technically) who fireballs a red dragon, and leaves his Wand of Ice Storm in the holster?

Nah. Pull the trigger. People who want to live long, uneventful lives shouldn't go adventuring.

 

[S'mon]

Personally I don't let dragons attack w tail & wings in the same round they attack w claw & bite, unless they're flanked. The visuals are too stupid. And dragon CRs are far too low of course, ca 4 too low, 6 > 10.

 

[Piratecat]

Yup, bad tactics from the players. As soon as the rogue dropped, he should have been healed by one of the two clerics. That's first priority; not healing him to get in one extra attack is a lot less effective than the multiple attacks over multiple rounds that the rogue could do.

Anyways, well handled! It'll be a game they talk about for quite some time.

 

[Zephyrus]

I might have given the Thurg a break. But prolly not directly.. Knowledge(Arcane) Covers Dragons. Once the Thurg was commiting himself to cast fire-ball. I would have perhaps suggested that they make a Knowledge (Arcane) Check. Succeed and I would have told them that a Fire Ball on a Red Dragon was likly not going to work. that it was prolly immune (give them more information for the better the check). At least that way they wouldent have wasted a fireball. If they made a good enough check you could prossibly have told them its vulnerable to cold.

In this way, a Character doesnt 'HAVE' to be only as smart as its player. And it spares you/the-GM the guilt of a accidental TPK.

 

[Bernardus]

A TPK is not funny, but it happens.
In this case the DM should not feel guilty.
The party lacked teamwork and that's why they got slaughtered.
A character who casts a fireball at a Red Dragon isn't very bright.
The DM could have had the caster make a Knowledge (Arcana) skill check and if he makes it, the DM coould have let the caster know that a Red Dragon is immune to fire.

The party could have beaten the Dragon if they worked together.