I've finally figured out why 3rd edition bugs me

[Desdichado]

Perhaps....I haven't really thought about that, to be honest. The presumption within the ruleset is simply that everyone plays the same way - consider those folks who post here with different approaches, and how much ire they draw!

If we do draw ire, it's typically only from a handful of individuals who somehow feel threatened by radically different approaches from someone on the other side of the world. I don't get it, but it's hardly a standard reaction around here; I've actually had pretty encouraging responses in general with my galimauphry of a ruleset.

Oddly enough, in older editions of the game, it was specifically stated from time to time that if you deviated from the rules you weren't playing D&D anymore. So, I think your perception is exactly opposite of what the designer's intent is.

 

[Desdichado]

Gary is a professional author, and he reads these forums. The least you can do if you're making accusations of professional incompetence is to try to substantiate them.

Huh. I certainly didn't read that as an "accusation of professional incompetence", merely an opinion on his writing style. Personally, I'm not that fond of either his game design or his prose, both of which contributed to my leaving D&D like a prodigal son for over a decade. And I don't feel inclined to offer substantiation, since it's nothing more than my personal preference.

 

[Sebastian Francis]

Got link?

[/Off Topic]

I must agree with Rel, here. True, there are a dozen or so folks that will post again and again and again and again and [ehr... You get the point] about the sanctity of the Core Rules, throw the buzzword "balance" around, and so forth, but over-all this site is highly receptive to alterations to the game for what-ever-reason despite the rantings of a very small vocal minority. There are other sites where such ideas are responded to as if some form of heresy has been committed (indeed, many people "reside" here because of the attitudes found elsewhere).

If you think it's bad at that "other site" you should check out rec.games.frp.dnd. *Those* guys are the biggest rules-Nazis I've ever seen. And downright nasty, a lot of them. Usenet has always been the wild west. Brrrrr....

 

[Desdichado]

Usenet has always been the wild west.

And not in a cool way either...

 

[Sebastian Francis]

And not in a cool way either...

Exactly. More like in a "Mad Max for real, duck for cover" way.

 

[barsoomcore]

I'll just say this, one last "But seriously!" for EGG -- he wrote the books that hooked me, and he DIDN'T write the books that drove me away.

OD&D
1e AD&D PHB
1e AD&D DMG
1e AD&D MM

Those were the books that captured my brain and got me here today. His writing changed my life, no kidding.

I believe that the best writing is the one that gets the job done as effectively as possible. I cannot imagine those books having had a BIGGER impact on me than they did, so to say that he's a crappy writer is just, well, nonsensical to me. He wrote exactly what was needed to get the job done, and I say good on him.

Now some smarty-pants is going to post the writing credits for those books and point out that EGG didn't even write them and I'm going to look stupid. I just know it.

Sigh. Some days, it's hard to work up the energy to gnaw through the straps.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Now some smarty-pants is going to post the writing credits for those books and point out that EGG didn't even write them and I'm going to look stupid. I just know it.

Sigh. Some days, it's hard to work up the energy to gnaw through the straps.

Quick! Everyone! To the Time Machine to invalidate everything barsoomcore has stated by making hong the writer of those books

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'll just say this, one last "But seriously!" for EGG -- he wrote the books that hooked me, and he DIDN'T write the books that drove me away.

I remember that same feeling. The feeling of "wow, this is fantastic, this is something I want to be a part of".

The problem is that I also remember the exact same feeling with regards to the fighting fantasy books (including advanced fighting fantasy), and a system called maelstrom which has since vanished off the radar. I also remember that feeling with some of the very first computer programming books I ever read.

I also have the same feeling when I look at my 3.0 rulebook.

Looking at them nowadays - they don't have that feeling anymore, and some of them I look through and think "damn, how did I ever think this was great".

I think part of it is that when you're new to something you have no idea of what consitutes quality.

 

[Sebastian Francis]

I remember that same feeling. The feeling of "wow, this is fantastic, this is something I want to be a part of".

I had that same feeling back in 1980 when I first saw Intellivision.

 

[barsoomcore]

Those are perfectly valid points -- and there's plenty of stuff I liked once that doesn't do it for me now -- and I haven't reviewed the writing in those books in a long time.

To be honest, I suspect it's somewhat purple, somewhat overwrought, and somewhat cliched. But it did the job and I'm not sure that isn't the only quality that counts in this case.

I DIDN'T care for Fighting Fantasy, and I still think that computer books like The C Programming Language are great, great books. Not liking the C book is like not liking Strunk and White -- they're classics.

Wow, can I ever derail a conversation.

I'd love to read the old books over again, but in a sense I don't need to, because I know the effect they had -- and that's all the proof I need that EGG did the job he needed to do with his words. If the prose had been crisper, more polished, would I have loved the game more? Or less?

All I know is, I loved it a lot. And still do.