I've got a BIG stick!
- Thread starter Dannyalcatraz
- Start date
I don't see how...after all, its got "a club" at each end- no less a weapon than any other.
And while many polearms are hacky-slashy, there are also those that are pokey pokey- like spears. Besides, the only difference between a slash of an axe on a pole and a swing of a "club on a pole" is the type of damage, not the motion.
First, they refer to "polearms." Second, depending on the feat, many of them DO refer to the pole in particular.
Shorten Grip allows the use of a reach pole weapon without reach...like a Q-staff. Haft Strike lets you use the butt end...like a Q-staff. Another allows you to deflect arrows by spinning the haft. Long reach- the one I asked about- lets you add 5" of reach to a polearm.
Come to think of it...I think several of them were designed by Ari Marmell- EN world's Mouseferatu...
ARI! Where are you?
werk
First Post
Dannyalcatraz said:
OH no, no, no. The mechanics are completely different.
Take a knife out of the kitchen.
Now, at arms length, slash something.
Now, at arms length, stab something.
Now, put a sheath on the knife and, at arm's length, try to bludgeon something.
Which would you use in a fight? Two of these things inflict MUCH more damage when compared to the other despite their very similar design.
Last edited:
Infiniti2000
First Post
Oddly, you find a lot of things arousing.hong said:
Merkuri
Explorer
Dannyalcatraz said:
I could see a spear as a polearm. Like you said, it's a poking type of polearm.
I may be wrong (I'm not a weapon's expert) but I think you use a quarterstaff differently than you do a polearm. Quarterstaves usually work best when swung around in a circle, using the momentum of the staff to give it power. Good quarterstaves are weighted so they can be balanced in the middle, and this makes it extremely easy to spin one, compared to a spear or a halberd. Spears and harlberds are weighted towards the business end. There may be a metal cap or something on the other end of the pole, but were you to try and balance a spear you'd probably find its center closer to the spearhead than the blunt end. This means you can't spin a spear quite the same way you can with a quarterstaff. I know less about polearms than I do about quartersaves, but from what I recall you usually thrust a polearm, and when you do swing it you make an arc, but not a circle. The weight of the business end lets it get more momentum so you don't need to swing it absolutely all the way around like you'd need to do with a quarterstaff.
Can you imagine sitting on the back of a horse and swinging a quarterstaff (held at one end) at somebody running by? You'd give them a knock on the head, but that would be it. Take the same quarterstaff and hold it in the middle, standing next to someone on the ground. Bring the quarterstaff up and around, knocking him in the head with the end that was on the ground a moment ago. If you do it right you'd knock him out, and may even kill him if you did it with enough power.
You simply do not use quarterstaves and polearms the same way, therefore a quarterstaff is not a polearm (IMO).
Quarterstaves also make excellent pokey weapons...they just bludgeon when they poke, rather than penetrate.
Consider the nightstick. While it is made for swinging, a nice jab to the solar plexus, crotch, nose, jaw or throat with one can be debilitating, potentially fatal. You can trip with it. You can break a joint with it (swinging or thrusting)...and you can do all of that just as easily with a Quarterstaff, and from much greater range.
As for the swinging motion of a typical polearm vs. a quarterstaff, I'd have to say most swinging strikes for any weapon are deliverered after 90-180 degrees of motion...270 at most. Truly circular strikes would be rare.
First, I wouldn't try to bludgeon someone with a knife on a stick...at least not with the knife end.
Second, the mechanics of a swing are identical regardless of weapon type. What differs is the type of damage- slashing versus bludgeoning- not the amount of damage.
Humans are pretty doggone resilient.
You stab someone with your KoaS (Knife on a stick), you can definitely kill someone...if you hit soft spot. If you hit bone or deep muscle, you'll make them bloody and hurt, but it will just be a flesh wound. Even if you stab someone in the face, fatality is not automatic. Heck, there is even the celebrated case of Phineas Gage who took a railroad spike completely through his head...and survived.
OTOH, I guarantee you, if a full grown human takes a 32oz stick and swing it at someone's (unprotected) head and connects, broken bones will result, unconsciousness is probable, and you have a good chance of killing them. There will be bleeding and swelling of the brain against the cranium. That's why a baseball bat can be considered a weapon (at least in TX)- if you have one in your car, you'd better be able to prove you're on your way to practice or a game.
Consider the nightstick. While it is made for swinging, a nice jab to the solar plexus, crotch, nose, jaw or throat with one can be debilitating, potentially fatal. You can trip with it. You can break a joint with it (swinging or thrusting)...and you can do all of that just as easily with a Quarterstaff, and from much greater range.
As for the swinging motion of a typical polearm vs. a quarterstaff, I'd have to say most swinging strikes for any weapon are deliverered after 90-180 degrees of motion...270 at most. Truly circular strikes would be rare.
First, I wouldn't try to bludgeon someone with a knife on a stick...at least not with the knife end.
Second, the mechanics of a swing are identical regardless of weapon type. What differs is the type of damage- slashing versus bludgeoning- not the amount of damage.
Humans are pretty doggone resilient.
You stab someone with your KoaS (Knife on a stick), you can definitely kill someone...if you hit soft spot. If you hit bone or deep muscle, you'll make them bloody and hurt, but it will just be a flesh wound. Even if you stab someone in the face, fatality is not automatic. Heck, there is even the celebrated case of Phineas Gage who took a railroad spike completely through his head...and survived.
OTOH, I guarantee you, if a full grown human takes a 32oz stick and swing it at someone's (unprotected) head and connects, broken bones will result, unconsciousness is probable, and you have a good chance of killing them. There will be bleeding and swelling of the brain against the cranium. That's why a baseball bat can be considered a weapon (at least in TX)- if you have one in your car, you'd better be able to prove you're on your way to practice or a game.
Last edited:
Mouseferatu
Hero
Dannyalcatraz said:
Right here.
The issue is a bit of a fuzzy one in 3E, since the game doesn't have a strict definition of what constitutes a pole arm and what doesn't. In the real world, a quarterstaff is wielded very differently than, say, a spear or a halberd. On the other hand, the game doesn't really model the particular use of most weapons very well.
The Dragon article lists quarterstaffs among the pole arms. Now, I'll be honest: I don't think it did so when I wrote it; if I remember correctly (and to be fair, I may not), that was something added after I turned in my portion of the material.
That said, I see no reason why most of the pole arm-related feats couldn't be applied to a quarterstaff. Its physical makeup, and at least some of its methods of use, are close enough to work, at least so far as D&D makes the distinction. I would argue, however, that a quarterstaff being used with a pole arm-related feat probably cannot also be used as a double weapon in the same around (unless it's a feat that already works with double weapons), simply because it would have to be held differently. (I'm thinking, in particular, of the feat that adds 5 feet of reach.)
(Cool Beans- I summoned the Mouse of Darkness!)
Mouseferatu
Hero
Dannyalcatraz said:
Well, technically you're supposed to say my name three times in a row, but I figured the combination of first name, last name, and screen name would suffice.
This text is from the D20 SRD.
Polearms
A pole weapon or polearm is a weapon with the main fighting part of the weapon placed on the end of a long shaft, typically of wood. The use of pole weapons is very old, and the first spears date to the stone age. The purpose of using pole weapons is to either increase angular momentum, and thus striking power, when the weapon is swung, or extending reach. In addition, when the shaft is made out of certain materials, such as bamboo, it can bend and vibrate, allowing the head to hit behind a block, or could be used to confuse the enemy with a circular oscillation, obtained by a snap of the leading wrist, combined with a straight thrust. Pole weapons are relatively cheap and simple to make, and they were fairly easy for most people to use effectively as they were often derived from hunting or agricultural tools.
Spears were probably first used as hunting weapons, either for thrusting or for throwing; the ability to strike the prey from a relatively safe distance no doubt appealing to the hunters. It was likely recognized almost immediately that they were also most useful against predators and other humans. When planted in the ground at an angle, it is a very effective defensive weapon against a charging enemy.
Massed men carrying pole weapons with pointed tips (spears, pikes, etc.) were recognized fairly early in the history of organized warfare as effective military units. On defense the men holding the spears were hard to reach; on the attack, as in the Macedonian phalanx, they were devastating to those units which could not get out of the way.
With the advent of armored fighters, especially cavalry, pole weapons frequently combined the spearpoint (for thrusting) with an axe- or hammer-head (for a swinging strike which could pierce or break armor), sometimes called a partisan.
Pole weapons include the spear, the Voulge, the glaive, the guisarme, the Bardiche, the lance, the halberd, the pike, the ahlspiess, the naginata, the scythe, the poleaxe, the bill, the long war hammer and many, many more.
Pole weapons have largely been superseded by firearms. However, the bayonet attachment for a modern assault rifle can still be regarded as a form of pole weapon.
Polearms
A pole weapon or polearm is a weapon with the main fighting part of the weapon placed on the end of a long shaft, typically of wood. The use of pole weapons is very old, and the first spears date to the stone age. The purpose of using pole weapons is to either increase angular momentum, and thus striking power, when the weapon is swung, or extending reach. In addition, when the shaft is made out of certain materials, such as bamboo, it can bend and vibrate, allowing the head to hit behind a block, or could be used to confuse the enemy with a circular oscillation, obtained by a snap of the leading wrist, combined with a straight thrust. Pole weapons are relatively cheap and simple to make, and they were fairly easy for most people to use effectively as they were often derived from hunting or agricultural tools.
Spears were probably first used as hunting weapons, either for thrusting or for throwing; the ability to strike the prey from a relatively safe distance no doubt appealing to the hunters. It was likely recognized almost immediately that they were also most useful against predators and other humans. When planted in the ground at an angle, it is a very effective defensive weapon against a charging enemy.
Massed men carrying pole weapons with pointed tips (spears, pikes, etc.) were recognized fairly early in the history of organized warfare as effective military units. On defense the men holding the spears were hard to reach; on the attack, as in the Macedonian phalanx, they were devastating to those units which could not get out of the way.
With the advent of armored fighters, especially cavalry, pole weapons frequently combined the spearpoint (for thrusting) with an axe- or hammer-head (for a swinging strike which could pierce or break armor), sometimes called a partisan.
Pole weapons include the spear, the Voulge, the glaive, the guisarme, the Bardiche, the lance, the halberd, the pike, the ahlspiess, the naginata, the scythe, the poleaxe, the bill, the long war hammer and many, many more.
Pole weapons have largely been superseded by firearms. However, the bayonet attachment for a modern assault rifle can still be regarded as a form of pole weapon.
