I've got the 3.5 PHB in front of me

[John Crichton]

Methinks he was talking about the rumored Unearthed Arcana, apparently a book of varients by WotC...not Monte's Arcana Unearthed. Though, I don't see VP/WP being presented as a variant, because of the sheer amount of work it would take. That would require an entire book to itself.

Ah! Damnable reversed titles...

 

[Eridanis]

This is exciting news, and all (thanks, Roy, for sharing!!) - but perhaps we could leave the speculation & discussion for another thread, and leave this one relatively clear for Roy to skim through and answer whatever questions he can.

 

[coyote6]

Re: The PA logic

The STR13 guy gets a +1 damage bonus.
The STR18 guy gets a +6 damage bonus.

They both have the some attack bonus. So the STR13 guy actually benefits better from PA. His chance that a hit will turn into a miss is the same. He perk for hitting is the same. But his penalty if the hit becomes a miss is more than 5 points less (5 for STR bonus and the 2H weapon will have a higher base damage).

I can't dig that funky logic, man.

B does more damage, so missing is a bigger penalty to him? That's saying that dealing more damage is a downside.

You realize that the change to Power Attack actually makes that worse -- now B, Power Attacking for X points off his attack bonus, getting +2x to damage, now loses *even more* damage when he misses, and gets an even steeper "penalty". So this doesn't fix that problem; it actually makes it worse.

(That is, if I understand your reasoning correctly, which I'm not sure I do.)

So PA actually rewards marginal STR guys.

I can't follow that; yes, the guy that does 1d6+1 damage gets a greater proportional increase (i.e., any particular amount of damage increase is a greater percentage of its base damage)from Power Attack than a guy that does 2d6+9. However, the 2d6+9 guy still does 1d6+8 more damage. Proportional increase has little relevance; the absolute increase is identical.

BTW, by that logic, two-handed weapons should get a greater bonus to damage from Weapon Specialization, enhancement bonuses, morale bonuses, etc., than one handed weapons. So do all those things also reward marginal Str characters more than strong ones?

The change gets rid of the PA plus finesse thing (a change I like),

That change (no Power Attack with light weapons) is, IMO, entirely separate from increasing the damage bonus given for two-handed weapon use. You can say "can't Power Attack with light weapons" all by itself.

unless you use a rapier (I can not think of any other off hand, perhaps I forget).

Spiked chain. Which, as a Large weapon, requires two hands, and thus qualifies for +2 damage per point of Power Attack. So now Dex 22, Str 14 guy gets even more bang for his Dex-backed buck.

Hmm, perhaps we should break off this subthread and let Roy dish some more news.

 

[Stalker0]

This is exciting news, and all (thanks, Roy, for sharing!!) - but perhaps we could leave the speculation & discussion for another thread, and leave this one relatively clear for Roy to skim through and answer whatever questions he can.

I agree, Roy is already doing so much by answering so many questions. We should just leave this for questions and answers.

 

[Felon]

Maybe. But I do not think it is as bad as you say. The bonus feats tend to come much easier than they would if you "earned" them.

If you've already got the feat, the combat style gets you nothing. If you had a pick list, you'd get something. That pretty well sums it up.

So a high level fighter complaining about the weak bonus feat he got from taking a ranger level would be akin to a high level fighter complaining about the weak 1d4+1 mm he got from taking a level of wizard.

No, a magic missile would be something. We're talking about nothing. I prefer a design that gives something over a design that gives nothing.

 

[Kai Lord]

This is exciting news, and all (thanks, Roy, for sharing!!) - but perhaps we could leave the speculation & discussion for another thread, and leave this one relatively clear for Roy to skim through and answer whatever questions he can.

I second that. So what are you waiting for Mr. Moderator? Start trimming the fat from this thread and delete posts that don't contain questions or answers. Someone can start a separate "In response to all the new 3.5 data" thread and it'll be much easier for everyone.

 

[jasamcarl]

Re: Re: The PA logic

I can't dig that funky logic, man.

B does more damage, so missing is a bigger penalty to him? That's saying that dealing more damage is a downside.

You realize that the change to Power Attack actually makes that worse -- now B, Power Attacking for X points off his attack bonus, getting +2x to damage, now loses *even more* damage when he misses, and gets an even steeper "penalty". So this doesn't fix that problem; it actually makes it worse.

(That is, if I understand your reasoning correctly, which I'm not sure I do.)



I can't follow that; yes, the guy that does 1d6+1 damage gets a greater proportional increase (i.e., any particular amount of damage increase is a greater percentage of its base damage)from Power Attack than a guy that does 2d6+9. However, the 2d6+9 guy still does 1d6+8 more damage. Proportional increase has little relevance; the absolute increase is identical.

BTW, by that logic, two-handed weapons should get a greater bonus to damage from Weapon Specialization, enhancement bonuses, morale bonuses, etc., than one handed weapons. So do all those things also reward marginal Str characters more than strong ones?



That change (no Power Attack with light weapons) is, IMO, entirely separate from increasing the damage bonus given for two-handed weapon use. You can say "can't Power Attack with light weapons" all by itself.



Spiked chain. Which, as a Large weapon, requires two hands, and thus qualifies for +2 damage per point of Power Attack. So now Dex 22, Str 14 guy gets even more bang for his Dex-backed buck.

Hmm, perhaps we should break off this subthread and let Roy dish some more news.

No, what he is saying is that damage output is no longer penalized by not placing point distribution in Str to the same degree he used to, because str counts for comparitvly less. Thus, the dex fighter has a higher AC while dealing almost the same degree of damage. All fighters benefit from the change, not simply the str guy. The fact that he has a higher total damage output is simply a form of ultra specialization that requires a cost in AC.

And i think you are underestimating the marginal benefit of AC. Rumors I've heard conscerning the change of the in AC bonus types suggest that npc/pc ACs have also increased. Though we will have to see how monsters and equipment ultimatly come out to be sure. And I've seen multiple iterative attacks fail as the situation stands.

And its ironic that you dismiss ac bonuses while saying that there are no changes in the marginal utility of damage. Most highlevel combat seem to rely on 'big' damage bursts from spells, magic enhancements, etc. Str damage, because it is linear in progression, makes little difference in the number or rounds a combat takes to play out. And given the 'burst' nature of damage at high levels, the consequences to taking a hit from touch attacks, grapples, etc are extreme.

 

[KingCroMag]

Can you describe what kinds of creatures are on the summon monster series and desribe the planar binding rules?
-KCM

 

[Apok]

Re: My curiosity...

I am curious what new Bard singing abilities were added.

Thanks!

Ditto.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

Thanks for the advance info Roy. This is awsome.

What did they change about the Sorcerer?

What does the Rogue trapsensing ability do?