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I've seen The Last Samurai
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Finkin Swiftfingers
First Post
This was an outstanding movie. I enjoyed the movie and thought the last battle scene was truly epic. I went to enjoy the movie, not critique it for every little historical inaccuracy.
Tallok
First Post
but see, it upset me that he lived. first of all, he should have died with all those injuries, and second, why is it actually a good plot device to have one survivor? if one, why not others? no sense to me, I would do like dragonblade and turn off when all the people are bowing, that's when I thought it would end, but no.Sirius_Black said:
Dragonblade said:All in all, I did like the movie. Next time I see it, I'll be sure to end the film right at the last battle scene and just imagine that Algren dies there.
I've found a lot of movies to be like that (seems like most of them are the big "blockbuster" films for some reason). AI is a case in point, switch it off as the camera pans back from the little boy trapped in the sub making wishes to the Blue Fairy, and you've got a butt kicking movie.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
I don't see a lot of movies. Too many of them suck. The last three I've seen in the last few months have been Master and Commander, Return of the King, and the Last Samurai.
Got my money's worth on all three of them.
I didn't like some elements of Last Samurai. I keept thinking of the movie Glory the whole way through as some parts were telegraphed way ahead of time and I didn't like how quickly he mastered the swordstyle. I'll also throw in my agrement that the whole honorable without evil and that white men are all evil.
Overall, it's a good movie, one that any fan of Legend of the Five Rings should watch if they need something to start the old mind working in some different aspects of that setting.
Got my money's worth on all three of them.
I didn't like some elements of Last Samurai. I keept thinking of the movie Glory the whole way through as some parts were telegraphed way ahead of time and I didn't like how quickly he mastered the swordstyle. I'll also throw in my agrement that the whole honorable without evil and that white men are all evil.
Overall, it's a good movie, one that any fan of Legend of the Five Rings should watch if they need something to start the old mind working in some different aspects of that setting.
Liminal Syzygy
Community Supporter
I just saw this movie day before yesterday with a Japanese audience in Roppongi.
I thought the Emperor's decision at the end was drawing a parallel to MODERN Japan... That she should go her own way and stop being a lackey of the US. But maybe I read too much into it. (Disclaimer: Not supporting this view in any way just saying I felt this was there as a message.)
I agree that it would have been a better movie if at least some small attempt was made to present a more balanced viewpoint and to show the true complexities of the situation.
My (Japanese) wife was a bit taken in by it and as we were discussing it afterwards intimated that Japan would have been better off without the Meiji Restoration. But I said that without the Meiji Restoration Japan would surely have been used and abused by a Western or another Asian power as Japan abused China and Korea. It's not a simple issue.
But from the viewpoint of a fun movie, it was good. Also from the viewpoint of a Japanese speaker there wasn't anything EXTREMELY painful in the movie. Holywood uses random Asians in Japanese roles at times and this was avoided. The English guy's Japanese was pretty bad, but besides a few times in which it sunk into incomprehensibility, it was believable as a scholar-type who could read and translate but just had a bad ear for the spoken word (I've run into a few of those people).
I thought the Emperor's decision at the end was drawing a parallel to MODERN Japan... That she should go her own way and stop being a lackey of the US. But maybe I read too much into it. (Disclaimer: Not supporting this view in any way just saying I felt this was there as a message.)
I agree that it would have been a better movie if at least some small attempt was made to present a more balanced viewpoint and to show the true complexities of the situation.
My (Japanese) wife was a bit taken in by it and as we were discussing it afterwards intimated that Japan would have been better off without the Meiji Restoration. But I said that without the Meiji Restoration Japan would surely have been used and abused by a Western or another Asian power as Japan abused China and Korea. It's not a simple issue.
But from the viewpoint of a fun movie, it was good. Also from the viewpoint of a Japanese speaker there wasn't anything EXTREMELY painful in the movie. Holywood uses random Asians in Japanese roles at times and this was avoided. The English guy's Japanese was pretty bad, but besides a few times in which it sunk into incomprehensibility, it was believable as a scholar-type who could read and translate but just had a bad ear for the spoken word (I've run into a few of those people).
mattcolville
Adventurer
Azlan said:
Accuracy, in a story like this, is devoutly to be avoided. The Last Samurai is presented as an Epic Romance, giving us a 'romantic' view of a time and a place long past, as with Mallory presentation of Arthur.
WayneLigon
Adventurer
I liked it a great deal.
What political correctness? You had one man, one, who was sickened by the fact his commander made war upon a village of helpless women and children. What, no one at the time ever decided for themselves 'what we're doing here is wrong'?
Then you have a small village and a small group led by, again, one person who feels that the West has corrupted the samurai tradition. I certainly don't find it a stretch to think one small group would feel that way. Everyone else was like that Omura bastard (OK, no two ways you look at it, Omura is a real bastard), who was only too glad to embrace the Western ideas, along with the power and wealth they brought. If it had been the entire samurai 'caste' who refused to modernize and 'keep their pastoral way of existance', then yeah, there would be reason to cry BS.
The 'anti-PC' rants are now as strident and silly as the PC ones were in the first place.
What political correctness? You had one man, one, who was sickened by the fact his commander made war upon a village of helpless women and children. What, no one at the time ever decided for themselves 'what we're doing here is wrong'?
Then you have a small village and a small group led by, again, one person who feels that the West has corrupted the samurai tradition. I certainly don't find it a stretch to think one small group would feel that way. Everyone else was like that Omura bastard (OK, no two ways you look at it, Omura is a real bastard), who was only too glad to embrace the Western ideas, along with the power and wealth they brought. If it had been the entire samurai 'caste' who refused to modernize and 'keep their pastoral way of existance', then yeah, there would be reason to cry BS.
The 'anti-PC' rants are now as strident and silly as the PC ones were in the first place.
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barsoomcore
Unattainable Ideal
Have finally seen it. Not nearly as bad as it might have been, for which I am profoundly grateful.
All the dialog after the final battle should have been dropped. Algren survives, comes into the throne room, hands over the sword in silence, and leaves. Close up of Tom Cruise's face as he walks down the stairs from the palace.
THAT'S how to end that film.
I thought the full battle scenes were largely underwhelming -- though some of the horse stunts were VERY impressive. Maybe it's because my eyes were drawn to some samurai extra near the back who, in the initial charge, falls flat on his back ten feet before he reaches the enemy lines for no apparent reason. His feet just went out from under him and he flops on his back and then very ungracefully staggers to his feet again. I mean, you know, it happens, sure -- but it definitely took me "out of the moment" if you know what I mean.
I thought the performances were excellent (especially the younger kid and the grouchy swordmaster who smacks Cruise around in the rain) and the certainly the cinematography was lovely.
The effects were NOT up to snuff and the CGI work especially stood out as poorly done. Peter Jackson has spoiled us all.
The swordfighting looked good but wasn't filmed in such a way that you could really watch what was happening (on purpose and effectively so, I hasten to add). Plus the film followed one of my pet peeves of movie shorthand -- "The Hero Learns a Skill By Trying It Three Times" -- you see Cruise get his butt whupped, then you see him line up to try sparring with the samurai gang, and then you see him one-on-one-ing it with grouchy swordmaster, and now he's learned it! Hurrah!
Okay, it's not an easy thing to do, but that particular implementation has always irritated me.
I thought the ninja fight scene was not very well handled -- I didn't get a good sense of the fight itself and there just seemed to be a whole bunch of faceless bad guys with no particular skill or objectives that I knew about. So watching them die wasn't particularly exciting. But a great action director Zwick is not.
Boy, Katsumoto sure spoke good English.
I didn't see too much politicisation -- but then I'm neither American nor Japanese so perhaps I might have.
Am I the only one who thought it was eerie how much the kid playing Meiji actually LOOKED like Meiji?
All the dialog after the final battle should have been dropped. Algren survives, comes into the throne room, hands over the sword in silence, and leaves. Close up of Tom Cruise's face as he walks down the stairs from the palace.
THAT'S how to end that film.
I thought the full battle scenes were largely underwhelming -- though some of the horse stunts were VERY impressive. Maybe it's because my eyes were drawn to some samurai extra near the back who, in the initial charge, falls flat on his back ten feet before he reaches the enemy lines for no apparent reason. His feet just went out from under him and he flops on his back and then very ungracefully staggers to his feet again. I mean, you know, it happens, sure -- but it definitely took me "out of the moment" if you know what I mean.
I thought the performances were excellent (especially the younger kid and the grouchy swordmaster who smacks Cruise around in the rain) and the certainly the cinematography was lovely.
The effects were NOT up to snuff and the CGI work especially stood out as poorly done. Peter Jackson has spoiled us all.
The swordfighting looked good but wasn't filmed in such a way that you could really watch what was happening (on purpose and effectively so, I hasten to add). Plus the film followed one of my pet peeves of movie shorthand -- "The Hero Learns a Skill By Trying It Three Times" -- you see Cruise get his butt whupped, then you see him line up to try sparring with the samurai gang, and then you see him one-on-one-ing it with grouchy swordmaster, and now he's learned it! Hurrah!
Okay, it's not an easy thing to do, but that particular implementation has always irritated me.
I thought the ninja fight scene was not very well handled -- I didn't get a good sense of the fight itself and there just seemed to be a whole bunch of faceless bad guys with no particular skill or objectives that I knew about. So watching them die wasn't particularly exciting. But a great action director Zwick is not.
Boy, Katsumoto sure spoke good English.
I didn't see too much politicisation -- but then I'm neither American nor Japanese so perhaps I might have.
Am I the only one who thought it was eerie how much the kid playing Meiji actually LOOKED like Meiji?
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