I've seen The Last Samurai

[Liminal Syzygy]

Am I the only one who thought it was eerie how much the kid playing Meiji actually LOOKED like Meiji?

Yes, that was very cool, especially how he didn't have the trademark goatee in the first scene but had grown it a few months later. That guy is actually a kabuki actor, an onnagata who plays female parts.

 

[Enforcer]

All the dialog after the final battle should have been dropped. Algren survives, comes into the throne room, hands over the sword in silence, and leaves. Close up of Tom Cruise's face as he walks down the stairs from the palace.

THAT'S how to end that film.

I would have preferred the final scene with Meiji to be Algren doing the seppuku thang after Meiji succumbs to the pressure exerted by the industry guy and doesn't at all recognize the sacrifice the samurai made except for a tear in his Amaterasu-descended eye.

 

[barsoomcore]

Oh, yeah, and the first line of the film -- it wasn't a sword Amaterasu stuck in the water, it was a spear.

Sheesh.

Okay, that one I let slide. But still.

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

Heh, you know I was expecting a cliched Samurai movie ending so much that I was actually pleasantly surprised to get a cliched Hollywood movie ending.

 

[reapersaurus]

I thought the full battle scenes were largely underwhelming -- though some of the horse stunts were VERY impressive. Maybe it's because my eyes were drawn to some samurai extra near the back who, in the initial charge, falls flat on his back ten feet before he reaches the enemy lines for no apparent reason. His feet just went out from under him and he flops on his back and then very ungracefully staggers to his feet again. I mean, you know, it happens, sure -- but it definitely took me "out of the moment" if you know what I mean.

Wow - this sure is a repeated character trait in you, isn't it?

I'll try to help you once again.

If you stopped being SO intent on looking 'behind the facade' when first seeing a movie, you wouldn't have these kinds of problems, which in your own words are decreasing the enjoyment of the film for you.

Have your S.O., or someone who knows you well, read my posts on this subject and tell me they don't agree with me.

Just tryin' ta help...

 

[reapersaurus]

Could someone explain to someone ignorant of Japanese history what the real story was behind this movie?
Not the complete details, but the Cliff Notes' version.

I'm especially interested in how a country can be so shortsighted/stupid as to eradicate part of their OWN culture that they yearn for and celebrate today.

 

[Dark Jezter]

I'm especially interested in how a country can be so shortsighted/stupid as to eradicate part of their OWN culture that they yearn for and celebrate today.

That's because the romantics are looking at history through nostalgia-clouded vision. They view the samurai as honorable defenders of Japan. In reality, the Samurai were mostly elitist bullies who could do whatever they wanted to the common folk, and only had to answer to their lord.

I wonder if many people would think of the samurai as heroes if The Last Samurai had included a scene where one of them chopped off a commoner's head for not "showing proper respect."

 

[reapersaurus]

Dark Jester - while I understand that the Samurai were nowhere near as noble (or whatever word you'd use) as they were portrayed, that's not my point.

My point is that they are a cultural institution that Japan seems to yearn for, and celebrate today. And that the world identifies Samurai strongly and favorably with Japan.

So it boggles my mind how the Japanese themselves were responsible for their destruction.
We're not talking the Native American culture being wiped out by the USA here.
Japan did the eradicating of a culture (their culture) all by themselves, right?

That's what I'd like to learn more about, if anyone could help with some summarization of that, or any historical aspects of the film, actually.

 

[Wrath of the Swarm]

If they hadn't eradicated it then, they wouldn't be yearning for it now.

Sometimes having is not so satisfying a thing as wanting.

 

[Amal Shukup]

Lots of talk about historical innacuracies and PC 'revisionism'. This film is by no means a documentary and it took several liberties with the historical record. But, lest people wander off in a haze of righteous indignation against Hollywood about its treatment of the subject matter...

Some Historical Notes:

Emperor Meiji and his backers (including several powerful Samurai families) Took power back from the Togugawa Shogunate, abolished feudalism and brought Japan into the modern era by sheer force of will. There were blunders and they inadvertantly set up for a period of nationalistic imperialism that, well, ended badly for Japan. But they accomplished some truly amazing things in a remarkably short time. It's worth reading about.

The 'Rebels' in the movie are obviously based on the Satsuma rebellion (1876-1877) led by Saigo Takamori. Until 1873, Takamori had been Meiji's Field Marshall and close advisor, and had been instrumental in putting the Meiji Oligarchy back in power. Hey, that sounds familiar...

Random Fact: What prompted Takamori to quit his position was that the other advisors wouldn't let him invade Korea... Interestingly, his plot involved having an emissary make such unreasonable and insulting demands that the Koreans would be provoked into killing him - thus providing some casus belli. Being a seriously hardcore Samurai type, he volunteered to be the sacrificial emissary himself. This is actual history! You can't make this stuff up!
​

The Rebellion was ended at the battle of Shiroyama. Saigo Takamori, leading 25000 Samurai against 300000 better armed Gov't troops, was seriously wounded and comitted seppuku to avoid the shame of capture. Not badly represented by the flick. Except for that odd Gaijin hanging around... Actually reports differ - some claim he went out in the traditional seppuku fashion - others claim he was too badly injured and required a 'friend' to help him...

What is not open for debate is that the battle of Shiroyama marked the end of the Edo period and Japan's feudal era. Takamori was, in essence, the last samurai.

Emperor Meiji, in response - likewise well represented in the flick - PARDONED Saigo Takamori of all crimes and went out of his way to have him recognized as a national hero.

As to the whole rah rah bit about tossing out the Americam arms deal or whatever. Not representational of a specific event, but symbolically very accurate:

Modernizing (and unifying) Japan allowed it to deal with the rest of the world on relatively equal terms, rather than as a patsy of 'Western' (not neccesarily American) imperialism. They were able (by 1894) to renegotiate the unequal treaties forced on them 50 years earlier by Commodore Perry et al. More accurately Envoy Harris. Perry keeps getting the blame, but all he really did was deliver a quite reasonable letter.

What amuses me is that in order to accomplish this, Japan built an army based on the Prussian model, a British style Navy, an education system based on France's, a German style judiciary, and later a european style constitution and parliament.

If we Scots had learned that fast, we woulda kicked Longshanks' skinny pattooskie up between his shoulder blades...

A'Mal