Jackie Chan Quits...

[Ranger REG]

There's a bit of a double-standard for fans of these movies. When the movie's an Asian import, the cheesy dialogue, shallow characters, and absurd plot is expected and accepted.

By Americans? Really? Nah!!!!

Well, that's one way the mainlanders can discriminate asian entertainment.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

No, I didn't say that. Doesn't anyone actually read my posts? :\

You are right, it was about America vs Russian. My point was (once again for clarity) it didn't claim that all foreigners are bad.

Drago didn't just "happen to be a Russian." He was symbolic of the Russian governmental machine. Rocky defeating Drago, and the Russian people cheering, was a statement.

While the movie's scope did not encompass all foreigners, it was a blatant attack on a foreign government, and an aggrandizement of ours. America is wonderful, Russia is evil. Heck, at the end of the movie even the Russians were cheering Rocky. Conversion at its finest.

I feel that you're splitting hairs. One kind of foreigner or several kinds, the central theme is the same. Our country is better than others. Our way of life is better than others. Be proud to be us. We accept movies like Rocky IV and Independence Day in the US without batting an eye, but somehow China isn't allowed to put out Nationalistic movies because they're Communist?

Don't get me wrong, I do not support China's government. One set of grandparents were driven out of China to Taiwan by the Communists.

But accepting nationalism in one's own movies, but decrying it in another country's, is inappropriate, IMO. If a movie's agenda gets in the way of its entertainment value, then I will condemn it for being a bad movie that fails to entertain. But a movie can contain nationalist undertones and still be highly entertaining, in which case it succeeds. Hero was such a movie, IMO.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

First off I saw Hero, and I loved most of it, the action scenes were brilliant wire-fu. My problem wasn't even really with the nationalism directly. It was with the characters themselves and the rigidly deterministic mindset of their actions. The way their actions were so stylized that they were simply alien to me.

Such as the two later assasins, broken sword and snow. They engage in a stupid and pointless fight over an issue neither of them are going to influence. Then broken sword "shows his love" for snow by letting her kill him? What sort of mindless purile drivel is that? And after she kills him she commits suicide, when she drew down on him in the first place, if she was so heartbroken over killing him she committed suicide why did she draw down in the first place? You don't draw a lethal weapon unless you intend to kill with it.

Then there's the Nameless Hero, I can see him realizing that the emperor had to live to unite the land. My problem is that once he spares the emperor's life the emperor now owes him his life. And even assuming the emperor still orders him killed it's perfectly clear he could have escaped any time he wanted if he tried, or even turn around and go right through those guards to kill the emperor anyway for his betrayal after his life was spared. So why did he just stand there and allow them to kill him, it makes no sense at all?

 

[Villano]

Drago didn't just "happen to be a Russian." He was symbolic of the Russian governmental machine. Rocky defeating Drago, and the Russian people cheering, was a statement.

While the movie's scope did not encompass all foreigners, it was a blatant attack on a foreign government, and an aggrandizement of ours. America is wonderful, Russia is evil. Heck, at the end of the movie even the Russians were cheering Rocky. Conversion at its finest.

I feel that you're splitting hairs. One kind of foreigner or several kinds, the central theme is the same. Our country is better than others. Our way of life is better than others. Be proud to be us. We accept movies like Rocky IV and Independence Day in the US without batting an eye, but somehow China isn't allowed to put out Nationalistic movies because they're Communist?

It isn't about splitting hairs, but a missed point. You said that Rocky IV's scope "did not encompass all foreigners". That was my point! I was talking about a film that portrayed all foreigners as being evil. As you said, Rocky IV didn't do that. I also said that I had no problem with a villain representing a foreign government.

On one hand, you have a film which represents a conflict between people from countries that are currently in some from of conflict with each other. The other shows a hero beset by people from a multitude of countries who are all out to kill him simply because they are evil foreigners. One makes a political statement, while the other is xenophobia.

 

[Taelorn76]

Jet Li Confirms Jackie Chan Team-Up

Comingsoon.net has an article on Li and Chen teaming up on a possible kids movie.

 

[Ranger REG]

Comingsoon.net has an article on Li and Chen teaming up on a possible kids movie.

So they're continuing the Spy Kids franchise, now with Asian kids. Cool.

Let's hope he won't be the next Pacifier.

 

[trancejeremy]

There's a bit of a double-standard for fans of these movies. When the movie's an Asian import, the cheesy dialogue, shallow characters, and absurd plot is expected and accepted. I suspect "The One" would've been considered a classic if it hadn't come out of Hollywood.

Man, look at how popular "Returner" was. A horrible, gimmick-driven, Matrix derivative with silly characters and a nonsensical plot, yet it was considered a real discovery by fans in the U.S. But pretty much any criticism you can level at "The One" could be applied to it as well.

I disagree - the Returner was a great movie.

I don't understand how it can be a Matrix derivative. It was more a Terminator derivative in terms of plot. And in terms of action scenes, the Matrix copied from asian movies, not the other way around.

Still, what made the Returner good was the characters. The main guy was likeable. The villain was great - I love how in pretty much every fight scene, he grabs one of his own henchmen as a human shield.

While in The One, it was a standard Good twin, evil twin movie. Which frankly, always suck. Plus all the fight scenes were bad CGI, I saw a making of it - basically all Jet Li did was hit tennis balls on a string, and they added the rest in.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The other shows a hero beset by people from a multitude of countries who are all out to kill him simply because they are evil foreigners. One makes a political statement, while the other is xenophobia.

I think a case can be made for China having a tumultous relationship with "the West" just as we had with the USSR. The fact that it's several countries instead of one doesn't make the representation less symbolic and a product of unprovoked xenophobia.

Draco didn't kill Apollo simply because he was an "evil Russian". It was a statement about the merciless Russian machine.

Similarly, the humiliators in Fearless may not be evil merely for the sake of being evil. they could serve to make a statement--a negative statement--about how the West has treated China (at least in the minds of certain Chinese.)

 

[Felon]

I disagree - the Returner was a great movie.

I don't understand how it can be a Matrix derivative. It was more a Terminator derivative in terms of plot. And in terms of action scenes, the Matrix copied from asian movies, not the other way around.

Think it's safe to say the guy in leather moving in bullet-time super-speed is pretty heavily derivative of the Matrix. But yes, it was derivative of Terminator, Independence Day, and a few other flicks too. The movie's spectacularly brainless. I particularly liked the way the aliens were given a big 180 at the end of the movie, so that they seemed like they were not so bad after all--the whole planetary genocide thing was just a misunderstanding.

Still, what made the Returner good was the characters. The main guy was likeable. The villain was great - I love how in pretty much every fight scene, he grabs one of his own henchmen as a human shield. While in The One, it was a standard Good twin, evil twin movie. Which frankly, always suck. Plus all the fight scenes were bad CGI, I saw a making of it - basically all Jet Li did was hit tennis balls on a string, and they added the rest in.

As stated, the action in Returner and many other supposedly "great" Asian films are heavily CGI'ed, so you're not pointing any difference there. "The Stomr Riders" even shows all the green-screen effects during the closing credits. Frankly, the distinctions you're drawing just seem syptomatic of exactly what I saying. In a Hollywood flick, if the main guy is just blandly likable, and the villain is this ridiculous, over-the-top, one-dimensional dastard, the movie's lambasted for being uninspired and insulting the audience's intelligence.