Jackie Chan Quits...

[Lord Pendragon]

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Romeo Must Die, myself. "I love American football." heh.

As far as Fearless goes, I'll definitely see it at some point. It looks awesome. Regarding the nationalistic issues, I don't have a problem with them. I cheered Rocky Balboa when he beat the stuffing out of the Russian guy in Rocky IV. It'd be somewhat hypocritical of me to object to a Chinese hero whupping on foreigners now.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

For example, in Master of the Flying Guillotine, there is a martial arts contest with people from around the world (India, Thailand, Japan, etc) competing. When the villain shows up and seeks assitance in killing the hero, all the foreigner fighters join him. There's no reason for this. After all, they are just fighters in a competition. They'll gladly kill someone because, well, they are evil foreigners.

I also think that fighting the fighters of different nationalities is a staple in martial arts films quite frankly. I mean the same thing is done at the end of Game of Death, and most recently in Tom Yun Goong w/ Tony Jaa. Heck, look at all of the fighting video games for petes sake. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, I even think that Dhalsim uses the East Indian fighter from Master of the Flying Guillotine as it's template. Anyway I way trying to avoid commenting on the whole "evil foreigners" thing. I think it's really kind of silly being that there are fair amount of US made action movies use the evil foreigners idea especially the british villian. You know Rocky IV (Russian), Die Hard (European), Marked for Death (Jamaican) and the list can go on an on and on if I bother to go digging and not use the examples off the top of my head.

Anyway, back to Fearless. It looks to be an incredibly fictionalized account of this guy's life. According to Wikipedia (don't read its entry unless you want spoilers), the film is about "The Foreign Chambers of Commerce" efforts to humiliate the hero, Huo Yuanjia, as a way to degrade the Chinese, so they set him up in a series of fights against a British boxer, a German spear fighter, a Spanish fencer, and a Japanese fighter. Also, earlier in the film, the hero fights an American wrestler named "Hercules O'Brien" who insults the Chinese by calling them the "sick men of the East" (whatever that means).

Like I said before I saw this movie several months ago and watched it again a few weeks ago and the entire conflict with the foreign chamber of of commerce takes place via flash forward in the first 5 - 10 min of the movie and then the last 30 min of the movie. If the movie has a real antagonist it's Yuan jia huo HIMSELF. He sees some thing happen as a child that molds him into a not so nice adult. For a large portion of the film he's his worst enemy until he's forced to take a good look at himself and what he means to his friends and country men.

The other thing to consider is how films are marketed and sold, we've sent more than our share of jingoistic action movies over seas and relied on the universal theme of mindless violence to sell tickets. To be annoyed that a movie made by the chinese mainly,for a chinese audience is a little..well I dont know what it is, but it seems a little strange. I'm a black man born in brooklyn NY and grew up watching predominately white heroes (until I discovered Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan in the early 70's) save the world for most of my life. So I really dont see what the problem is here.

But hey maybe it's just me...

 

[Villano]

I also think that fighting the fighters of different nationalities is a staple in martial arts films quite frankly. I mean the same thing is done at the end of Game of Death, and most recently in Tom Yun Goong w/ Tony Jaa. Heck, look at all of the fighting video games for petes sake. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, I even think that Dhalsim uses the East Indian fighter from Master of the Flying Guillotine as it's template. Anyway I way trying to avoid commenting on the whole "evil foreigners" thing. I think it's really kind of silly being that there are fair amount of US made action movies use the evil foreigners idea especially the british villian. You know Rocky IV (Russian), Die Hard (European), Marked for Death (Jamaican) and the list can go on an on and on if I bother to go digging and not use the examples off the top of my head.

Not to drag this out, but like I said, I have no problem with a foreign group as a threat or a villain who happens to be foreign. My point is when the villains are all from different places with no connection to one another and are just evil for evil's sake (and there isn't a single good foreigner among them). Dhalsim isn't evil. Most characters in "tournament" movies aren't evil, merely opponents.

During Rocky IV, he doesn't encounter a random Indian guy who tries to murder him. And then meets a Chinese guy who wants him dead. And then a killer Italian. And then the Japanese chef jumps him at the restaurant. He just wants to fight Drago, who happens to be Russian.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

During Rocky IV, he doesn't encounter a random Indian guy who tries to murder him. And then meets a Chinese guy who wants him dead. And then a killer Italian. And then the Japanese chef jumps him at the restaurant. He just wants to fight Drago, who happens to be Russian.

You're telling me you don't think there was a nationalistic undertone to Rocky IV? Or that the movie wasn't making a statement about American heart versus Russian authoritarianism?

 

[Villano]

You're telling me you don't think there was a nationalistic undertone to Rocky IV? Or that the movie wasn't making a statement about American heart versus Russian authoritarianism?

No, I didn't say that. Doesn't anyone actually read my posts? :\

You are right, it was about America vs Russian. My point was (once again for clarity) it didn't claim that all foreigners are bad.

Here's my original post:

I was thinking the same thing, however, it is a little different with some of these movies. I can overlook the evil guy who happens to be foreign or villains who represent a foreign government or group (like, say, The Russian Mob). The problem I have is when many different people from very different countries are all portrayed as being evil for no apparent reason.

For example, in Master of the Flying Guillotine, there is a martial arts contest with people from around the world (India, Thailand, Japan, etc) competing. When the villain shows up and seeks assitance in killing the hero, all the foreign fighters join him. There's no reason for this. After all, they are just fighters in a competition. They'll gladly kill someone because, well, they are evil foreigners.

If Rocky IV took place in an international competition in which he had to fight someone from Russia, Italy, Spain, Japan, etc. and they all turned out to be evil and wanted to kill him for no reason (or because Drago said, "Let's all kill the American"), then that would be a good example. Rocky IV was about Rocky vs Drago, not "Rocky vs everyone in the entire world who isn't American and, oh, by the way, they are all evil and want him dead".

 

[JoeGKushner]

And looking at Wikedpia, it notes that Jet Li has Rogue coming out in '07 so at least one more movie from him eh?

 

[Rackhir]

I also think that fighting the fighters of different nationalities is a staple in martial arts films quite frankly. I mean the same thing is done at the end of Game of Death, and most recently in Tom Yun Goong w/ Tony Jaa. Heck, look at all of the fighting video games for petes sake. Tekken, Virtua Fighter, I even think that Dhalsim uses the East Indian fighter from Master of the Flying Guillotine as it's template.

My complaints have nothing to do with there being foriegners or even foriegners as bad guys per se. The bad guys in Jackie Chan's Project A movies were foriegners, but the movies were also set in "foriegn countries" so I didn't have a problem with that. In Japan there were a series of Mafia vs Yakuza movies and I don't really have a problem with that since it's not like mobsters are red cross volunteers.

Anyway I way trying to avoid commenting on the whole "evil foreigners" thing. I think it's really kind of silly being that there are fair amount of US made action movies use the evil foreigners idea especially the british villian. You know Rocky IV (Russian), Die Hard (European), Marked for Death (Jamaican) and the list can go on an on and on if I bother to go digging and not use the examples off the top of my head.

Again it's not so much the fact that the villians are foriegners that bothers me, it's the emphasis that is placed in the trailer on the foriegners being there to "humiliate" and "Bring China to it's knees." and this is in the American trailer! I can only imagine what the chinese trailer was like.

If it was also only this film that had this sort of theme that wouldn't bother me. But there are a substantial number of movies with similar themes that I've seen and I don't exactly go out of the way to catch martial arts flicks about evil foriegners. Plus, I keep reading reports about how the Chinese Communist party is increasingly turning to rabid nationalism to help butress their rule and deflect criticisim of their missdeeds.

You're examples are of course true, but the thing that is different at least as I see it is that Hans Gruber isn't bad and evil because he's a foriegner, it's because he's the bad guy, who happens to be a foriegner. Probably because Alan Rickman sounds so cool doing that accent. Hans is a foriegner in large part probably due to a reverse snobbery. We tend to look at Europeans as being more cultured and sophisticated than americans, especially working class cops like John McClane.

However, if the US started making dozens of different movies about various attrocities that the British had committed in the American Revolution and the war of 1812, in which characters complained constantly about how the evil british robbed us of our "birthright" of Canada. I'd start being concerned about that too. I've also known americans who've complained about Mel Gibson's movie "The Patriot" precisely because the british characters were portrayed as evil for no good reason and in contradiction of the historical record. I think that is a valid complaint about the film.

Like I said before I saw this movie several months ago and watched it again a few weeks ago and the entire conflict with the foreign chamber of of commerce takes place via flash forward in the first 5 - 10 min of the movie and then the last 30 min of the movie. If the movie has a real antagonist it's Yuan jia huo HIMSELF. He sees some thing happen as a child that molds him into a not so nice adult. For a large portion of the film he's his worst enemy until he's forced to take a good look at himself and what he means to his friends and country men.

The other thing to consider is how films are marketed and sold, we've sent more than our share of jingoistic action movies over seas and relied on the universal theme of mindless violence to sell tickets. To be annoyed that a movie made by the chinese mainly,for a chinese audience is a little..well I dont know what it is, but it seems a little strange. I'm a black man born in brooklyn NY and grew up watching predominately white heroes (until I discovered Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan in the early 70's) save the world for most of my life. So I really dont see what the problem is here.

But hey maybe it's just me...

I would be very pleased if it's not the sort of film they seem to be billing it as. Also I'm quite frankly not a fan of mindlessly jingoistic american films like the aformentioned Rocky IV either.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Also I'm quite frankly not a fan of mindlessly jingoistic american films like the aformentioned Rocky IV either.

You're a sick man.

How can you not love the dialog in Rocky IV?

"If he dies, he dies."

"I must break you."

"I fight for me!"

Truly some of the best cinema ever!

 

[Rackhir]

You're a sick man.

How can you not love the dialog in Rocky IV?

"If he dies, he dies."

"I must break you."

"I fight for me!"

Truly some of the best cinema ever!

You mean there was actually DIALOG in Rocky IV? All I was able to make out was a bunch of heavily accented mumbling.

 

[Felon]

There's a bit of a double-standard for fans of these movies. When the movie's an Asian import, the cheesy dialogue, shallow characters, and absurd plot is expected and accepted. I suspect "The One" would've been considered a classic if it hadn't come out of Hollywood.

Man, look at how popular "Returner" was. A horrible, gimmick-driven, Matrix derivative with silly characters and a nonsensical plot, yet it was considered a real discovery by fans in the U.S. But pretty much any criticism you can level at "The One" could be applied to it as well.