Jack's of all trades classes: extinct? and "to bard or not to bard?"

[Jhaelen]

I think the listed the (uncompleted) Druid as a multi-role hybread

Yup. And this is also something that slightly worries me:
I take this to mean that the druid can fulfill several roles depending on chosen abilities/powers. If that is true it would also mean that if you aren't careful in choosing your abilities/powers you'll end up being unable to fulfill any role. I.e. there is nothing you can do well. WotC originally stated 4E classes would be designed so this couldn't happen any more!

If on the other hand the druid is able to fulfill every role at once, he'll be overpowered. Why have any other character classes at all, if the druid can replace all of them? An all druid-party would obviously be the best choice then.

So, in keeping with the 4E design goals there shouldn't be any jack-of-all-trades. Every class should be designed to be able to fulfill one role regardless of their chosen abilities/powers. If the player is interested in being able to serve as backup for a second role, this should also be possible by choosing the right abilities/powers and/or
feats/multiclassing, etc.

Edit: I'd like to add, that 'roles' in 4E are really just 'combat roles', so the 'jack-of-all-tradiness' of the 3E bard might well be preserved, resulting mainly from their out-of-combat abilities.

 

[Mirtek]

I have a question to your question: What do you define a Jack-of-all-trades as?

Medium in everything, good in nothing as opposed to good in one thing and below-average in anything else.

I enjoyed playing such characters too

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yup. And this is also something that slightly worries me:
I take this to mean that the druid can fulfill several roles depending on chosen abilities/powers. If that is true it would also mean that if you aren't careful in choosing your abilities/powers you'll end up being unable to fulfill any role. I.e. there is nothing you can do well. WotC originally stated 4E classes would be designed so this couldn't happen any more!

If on the other hand the druid is able to fulfill every role at once, he'll be overpowered. Why have any other character classes at all, if the druid can replace all of them? An all druid-party would obviously be the best choice then.

I agree that this is a concern. But I see a way out - being "theoretically" able to fulfill multiple roles, and being at a specific moment able to fill multiple roles can be different things.
For example, if the Druid has a daily ability that allows him to become a Bear, he might be a great Defender (or is it a Striker?). But he can't do much leading or controlling when he is in the middle of a melee combat. If he wants to control, he might have to stay in humanoid form, and better stays back.
Such a class isn't really more powerful then the dedicated character, but it might be more useful if you lack enough party members to fill all roles anyway. So you switch to your Striker/Defender shapes if you lack a dedicated Defender, and you stay at the back if you need a Controller.
Hybrid-Role classes might work a lot better in 4E then the 3E Jack of all Trades. The Bard might seem like a good idea to compensate the lack of a wizard and a rogue, for example, but the truth is, he is too bad in either position to help the group in the long run.

 

[Greg K]

I thought the jack-of-all-trades bard was a mistake in 3e. I thought the jack of all trades in 3e would have been best represented by the multiclassing rules. So, if 4e is moving away from the jack-of-all trades, I support the goal. However, the actual implementation is another thing- 4e, imo, has had a lot of good design goals, but I haven't been happy with most of the actual mechanics.

 

[Toben the Many]

My favorite characters have always the jack-of-all-trades (joats) types. The bard was the first class of this type and, while I enjoyed the concept, I never liked playing one. His spells weren't useful enough and I hated the songs, both in practice and in feel. There were other classes that tried to better fill this niche (spell thief, factotum, etc), and I liked them all on paper, but never quite was happy with any of them. Multiclassing came as close as I could get to finding my happy medium, though I always felt silly playing a character that had 1 or 2 levels in several different classes.

I think you hit it on the head right there. Characters that are jacks of all trades tend not to be very fun in play. The concept is cool, you're right, but when it comes down to it, it's not very fun to be the character who's only 2nd best at everything.

In terms of feel, I think the rogue is the best joat-type character. With so many skill points, the rogue in 3.5 often gets to do "lots of stuff", especially if they have a decent skill in Use Magical Device.

However, I'm looking forwards to 4e being a system where everyone eventually picks up a little bit of everything. It'll be nice to have a higher level party were people can actually ride horses, make an attempt to spot, and even hide if they have to.