Jessica Jones [spoilers allowed]

Skepticultist

Banned
Banned
Because under the Accords Jessica would hardly gotten away with all what she did. Ans also the response to a superpowered threat would have been a bit bigger than just the local cops.

I don't think we really know enough about Sokovia Accords to make statements like that. You seem to be assuming that the Accords are identical to the Superhuman Registration Act from the comics, but they don't seem to be nearly that sweeping. It affects the Avengers, and on Agents of SHIELD Talbot dresses down Coulson for having "unregistered assets" but in both cases, we're talking about superhumans engaged in matters of international security. Superhumans who ignore international boundaries and operate beyond the reach of domestic police forces.

Superhumans who do not operate at the international level would not be affected by the Sokovia Accords. They'd be a domestic issue, handled under domestic laws. Since Jessica operates entirely within New York, the Sokovia Accords almost certainly don't apply to her. If they did, they would have to apply everywhere in the world, all at once. That would require a massive international organization, far beyond the capabilities of the United Nations. It would require an organization like SHIELD, but SHIELD is gone (at least SHIELD as it once was, Coulson has repeatedly noted that they no longer have the resources they once had).




I have finished all of Season 2 of Jessica Jones, and I liked it quite a bit. Like the first season, the second season had clear themes and I feel did a better job of exploring them through the subplots of each of the characters. It is a slow burn, but I think that fits the character and mood the show is trying to create, and the themes it is exploring -- I don't think you can tell a story about trauma and addiction and also have break-neck pacing. I think it would be too dark, too mellodramtic. These kind of heavy themes need time to gestate.

Despite the slow, intentional pacing, none of the episodes felt like padding to make up for a thin story (a major flaw of Season 1). Season 2 also benefited from not having any characters as annoying or nonsensical as Ophelia (the insane twin from upstairs).

What I really think makes Season 2 fascinating is its lack of any clear villain, which I think is both very appropriate for a show about a woman who isn't clearly a hero, and also a very smart move given how powerful the villain of Season 1 was. Topping Tennant's Kilgrave would have been a nearly impossible task, and Season 2 cleverly avoided that issue by giving us two "villains" who are extremely sympathetic and lack malicious intent. Alisa Jones isn't evil, she's suffering from brain damage and can't control her actions. Karl Malus isn't evil, he genuinely is trying to save lives and keep things from spinning out of control. In the end, the story becomes about Jessica trying and failing to save her mother from herself, but coming to question her own purpose.

By subverting the traditional This Season's Big Bad story structure that has become the defining trait of superhero TV ever since Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 2 managed to tell a new and different kind of superhero story that was quite refreshing.

And now, nerd stuff:

  • I was disappointed by the death of Will "Nuke" Simpson. After Charlie Cox revealed that Daredevil S3 would be based on the Born Again storyline, I had hoped that they might use there in some way as a reference to Nuke's appearance in that comic.
  • While Trish's storyline is very different than her comic storyline, I really like that they've been building her up as a wanna-be superhero and have now given her superpowers. I'm really looking forward to an appearance by Hellcat in season 3 (and don't think I didn't catch that she scratched the face of that gay-basher who attacked Malcolm, nice little call out).
  • The Whizzer. :D Oh lord, I never thought in a million years I'd see any version of The Whizzer in the MCU, and this version was perfect. Sometimes the MCU, and especially the TV show, wastes good characters on throwaway parts and it annoys me, but it's not like they were ever going to use The Whizzer in a serious way, not with that name.
 

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Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
What I really think makes Season 2 fascinating is its lack of any clear villain, which I think is both very appropriate for a show about a woman who isn't clearly a hero, and also a very smart move given how powerful the villain of Season 1 was.

By subverting the traditional This Season's Big Bad story structure that has become the defining trait of superhero TV ever since Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Season 2 managed to tell a new and different kind of superhero story that was quite refreshing.

I fully agree. By taking out the villain v hero dynamic, they allowed this to be more of a character study and focus on the character dynamics. Notably I can't recall any previous instance of a superpowered Mother and Daughter relationship being explored (the dysfunction made interesting).


I'm not sure what I felt about Jeryn Hogarths storyline, though seeing how Malcolm picked it up at the end did give it a satisfying outcome. The Trish story seemed a bit messy, but good fan service given that everyone has wanted to know if Hellcat would ever show up. I too was sad to see Nuke killed off so soon though. Having him along for the ride would have been great especially as we still don't known who IGH (the people funding the research) really are.

As for padding what was the point of Griffin? Such a big player in the first few episodes but then disappears completely? I was sure he was going to be a bad guy, but ends up being meh.


I don't think we really know enough about Sokovia Accords to make statements like that. You seem to be assuming that the Accords are identical to the Superhuman Registration Act from the comics, but they don't seem to be nearly that sweeping. It affects the Avengers, and on Agents of SHIELD Talbot dresses down Coulson for having "unregistered assets" but in both cases, we're talking about superhumans engaged in matters of international security. Superhumans who ignore international boundaries and operate beyond the reach of domestic police forces.

I do wonder if the Powers and Special Protocols mentioned when Alisa is in jail are a result of the Sokovia Accords though, they allow suspension of civil rights and incarceration in the RAFT at least.
But yeah as I stated earlier I'm happy to assume that Jessica is on the SHEILD Index and don't think she did anything (provable) that would get her picked up. She was the victim in Alisa's escape to Canada and none of the killings can be pinned on her directly. Plus from what we've seen of SHEILDS operations, they have a degree of incompetence and if she gets a sympathetic caseworker (like Coulson) she might get a lot of slack given to her.
That said in the last episode when Jessica spots the black SUVs, I immediately thought "cool they have got SHIELD in to chase them." In my mind even though the team claimed to be NYPD rather than SHIELD that was just keep everyone from panicking more than usual :) Indeed I'd even go to the extent of imagining that DeCosta is a SHIELD agent put in place to monitor Jessica while posing as a police detective :)P).
 
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I really enjoyed it, I loved all the character arcs and character development. It was difficult to predict how the story would unfold and what exactly would happen - despite the show being a slow burn. I still think I prefer the first season, simply because Kilgrave was such a great, memorable villain. But I think it was a great move to not just bring in the next big bad and just go from there.

It was also nice to see Leoben again.

I'm pretty Disney is letting the quality of it's Defenders shows on Netflix go downhill because it is starting its own streaming service. Ever since Luke Cage the quality wasn't there. Iron Fist was laughable. DD season was about stalling. The Punisher and the Defenders just didn't deliver.

From the critics I've read, JJ season two is about more stalling.
I read somewhere that there was a certain budget allotted to the first Marvel Netflix shows, and the last ones basically had to be done with a lower budget. Which explains why they brought in people that are known to stay on or under budget and on time, but with the drawback of often not delivering the highest quality. (But that might be just a consequence of staying under budget and not necessarily talent - if you need to keep the number of rewrites, extra takes and reshoots down to control the cost, it is difficult to get everything right.)
 

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel
I read somewhere that there was a certain budget allotted to the first Marvel Netflix shows, and the last ones basically had to be done with a lower budget. Which explains why they brought in people that are known to stay on or under budget and on time, but with the drawback of often not delivering the highest quality. (But that might be just a consequence of staying under budget and not necessarily talent - if you need to keep the number of rewrites, extra takes and reshoots down to control the cost, it is difficult to get everything right.)
It is a possible explanation, but if you have strong scenario to start with it shouldn't affect the quality of the story. If you also have a Kevin Feige like long term story planned, it helsp too.

Ever since DD season 2, it has been explicite that they do not know where to take the story of the Defenders and its parts. Nothing much is gonna come out of the Hand.
 

Skepticultist

Banned
Banned
Not technically Jessica Jones related, but Iron Fist season 2 will be replacing Scott Buck as the showrunner. Buck was responsible for both Iron Fist and Inhumans, the two most thoroughly panned projects Marvel Studios has put out yet, so its no surprise he's out. He's being replaced by Raven Metzner, the showrunner for Falling Skies and Sleepy Hollow and writer of 2005's Elektra. That's not exactly the best resume, but supposedly Metzner is a huge fan of martial arts films so maybe it'll be good. At the very least, it has to be better.
 

Hm. If I were put in charge of 'Phase Two' of The Defenders, I'd have the following goals:

* Make Danny Rand likeable and actually good at martial arts.
* Make him stop being rich so he and Luke Cage need to be Heroes for Hire.
* Get a healthy romance between Luke and Jessica.
* Get Daredevil an excuse to retire with a bittersweet happy ending.

I'd actually be thrilled if Kingpin could be the big bad. He comes back into power during DD season 3, then in Defenders season 2 has some nasty plot that involves an 'evil super' team that pins crimes on Luke Cage and Danny Rand. Jessica Jones could use her investigating skills to find out what's up, and Murdock could lawyer and defend the Heroes for Hire. Then somehow you get a big fight at the end with a strong emotional component, as opposed to just punching ninjas who are suffering from the Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.
 

Oh, and I liked JJ season 2. I once again think shaving off a few episodes and tightening the pacing would have been good, as with ALL Netflix Marvel shows, but I liked the character drama of it.
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Hm. If I were put in charge of 'Phase Two' of The Defenders, I'd have the following goals:

* Make Danny Rand likeable and actually good at martial arts.
* Make him stop being rich so he and Luke Cage need to be Heroes for Hire.
* Get a healthy romance between Luke and Jessica.
* Get Daredevil an excuse to retire with a bittersweet happy ending.

I'd actually be thrilled if Kingpin could be the big bad. He comes back into power during DD season 3, then in Defenders season 2 has some nasty plot that involves an 'evil super' team that pins crimes on Luke Cage and Danny Rand. Jessica Jones could use her investigating skills to find out what's up, and Murdock could lawyer and defend the Heroes for Hire. Then somehow you get a big fight at the end with a strong emotional component, as opposed to just punching ninjas who are suffering from the Law of Conservation of Ninjutsu.

Yep gotta agree.

In Defenders I had hoped that Alexandra was going to be introducing a Ma Gnucci like figure to provide a direct rival to Kingpin and open up the whole Maggia syndicates side of Marvel, alas that was not the case and we ended up with something half assed and unsatisfying.

The showrunners either need to put the Kingpin at the center and focus the Netflix shows on the gritty criminal underbelly of the MCU or they need to embrace the Martial Arts weirdness of Iron Fist, DD and the Hand and actually let us actually travel to the Seven Cities of Heaven so the heroes can fight a live Dragon
 
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Skepticultist

Banned
Banned
Krysten Ritter has said there is no plans for a Defenders 2, and I believe her. The first one got very lackluster results, and I think the various stars and showrunners don't want to waste time on a second series when it means delaying their own individual series.

That said, if they do a Defenders S2, I'd go with Silvermane as the villain and introduce the Maggia (Marvel's version of the Mafia). At the beginning of the series, the following is true:
  1. Wilson Fisk is either in jail again, or has fled the country following the events of Daredevil S3.
  2. The younger crimelords who would fill in the void left by Fisk have all been murdered by the Punisher.
  3. The various crime families are in disarray, lacking leadership and direction.

An aged, long-retired crime boss sees this situation and finds it intolerable. He wants back in the game. His name is SILVIO MANFREDI, and once upon a time he and the Maggia ruled New York. Grown soft with power, weakened by FBI harassment, the Maggia were pushed out of New York by Fisk (as explained in DD S1 by Silvio to Ben Urich, who was supposed to be a nod to Silvermane, but there can be more than one Silvio), but now Manfredi sees a chance to return. And he realizes that what he needs to take over New York again is not just gangsters, but SUPER gangsters.

He captures DR. KARL MALUS, still on the run from the Feds, and forces him to create a legion of supervillain henchmen for him. Manfredi presents Malus with two of his top guys: JOSEPH LORENZINI and LONNIE LINCOLN. Malus performs his experimental procedures on them, and both are granted superhuman strength and durability, though Lincoln's skin becomes chalk-white as part of the procedure, an adverse reaction. He ends up calling himself TOMBSTONE because he looks like he just crawled out a grave.

Early in the series, Lorenzini confronts Luke Cage, the two fight, and Luke ends up giving Lorenzini a headbutt that cracks his skull and nearly kills him. Malus is able to save him by installing a heavy steel plate in his head, turning him into HAMMERHEAD. In their second battle, HAMMERHEAD returns the headbutt, nearly killing Luke. Even a super-punch to the head from Iron Fist can't slow this guy down.

We don't see Manfredi become SILVERMANE until the final episode, when he undergoes the process himself, nearly dies, and is saved at the last minute by "Deathlok" cybernetic enhancements bought/stolen from CYBER-TECH (nice little AOS tie-in there).
 

Going to disagree with most of you on this show

*the entire season has been depressing/boring and a drastic departure from the first season. The characters had had very little hangover from season 1 villain. Its true they all have issues but they had them previously (seen in Jessicas ATM flashback). the completion detective wants to kill her (hes living well and Jessica lives in a dump) because shes his competition? 1 or 2 episodes dedicated to the hangover and the problems but this doesn't make a good show
*This isn't even the best show on Netflix. I couldn't recommend this over seven seconds, Ozark or other superhero shows such as Daredevil or punisher. Jessica is a great character but the "mommy dearest" and we all have lives problems isn't done as well as say "This is Us"
*you can feel the budget constraints on this show compared to Daredevil and Punisher.
 

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