TSR Jim Ward: Demons & Devils, NOT!

In the very early to mid '80s religious nongamer people discovered AD&D had magical spells and demons and devils in its rules. The problems started with Sears and Penny's retail stores. TSR was selling thousands of Player Handbooks and Dungeon Master's Guides every month to both of those companies. I know this because I was in sales and inventory control at the time.

In the very early to mid '80s religious nongamer people discovered AD&D had magical spells and demons and devils in its rules. The problems started with Sears and Penny's retail stores. TSR was selling thousands of Player Handbooks and Dungeon Master's Guides every month to both of those companies. I know this because I was in sales and inventory control at the time.

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Six ladies wrote to Sears and the same six wrote to Penny's home offices telling those two companies of the evils of AD&D. They expounded on children learning to throw demonic spells while they summoned demons in their basements. The writers claimed that they would never buy a thing again from those two companies if the companies still sold TSR games. Just like a light switch those two companies stopped selling TSR product. The companies were offered things like Boot Hill, Tractics, and Gamma World, but they weren't interested. The stopping of sales from those two huge companies was a hard blow to take for TSR.


Author's Note: When I write these articles for EN World I'm trying to present an honest look at my memories of those times. There was enough wild and crazy things happening at TSR that I think the readers should be entertained. I freely admit that there might be dates and times that I don't have correctly related. However, I never try to exaggerate the facts or actions of others. I was in the thick of things and part of the design group and middle management for most of the 20+ years I worked there. If I make a mistake in the writing of these memories, I'm sorry and the mistake was unintentional.

Things proceeded and the bible belt southern states started doing book burnings. Those always elated Gary Gygax because he thought every player who had their books taken away would go back and buy the books again.

Gary went on some of the talk shows to speak about the value of the game. He was an excellent champion for the company. One of his arguments, that I really liked, was his baseball analogy. He would say, “When a criminal hurts someone with a baseball bat are you supposed to blame baseball?” That would make the naysayers sputter every time.

Duke Siegfried, Uncle Duke as he liked to be called, ran news interview classes for the middle management of TSR; these were people who had a chance to be interviewed out at conventions. I can especially remember one of the training sessions. Duke role-played the part of Johnny Carson. Don Snow was to be the TSR representative getting interviewed. Terri Quinn was in marketing at the time and her job was to distract Don. While Duke interviewed Don about D&D, asking questions to make the game look bad, Terri went to work on Don. Acting all the way, poor Don was torn between the distraction of Terri and the questions of Duke. At the end of the scenario Duke explained that set ups like that were common for news people and we needed to be on the look out for such things. I can remember thinking that scenario could never happen.

Six months later I was at a convention in Atlanta when a reporter started quizzing and flirting with me about the evils of AD&D and its harmful effects on children. I started out all smiles and really enjoying the woman's company and her style. Suddenly, remembering Duke's lesson, I became grim-faced, and gave out the bullet-point facts Duke had prepared us with if we were interviewed. She didn't get the interview she wanted from me.

Conventions for awhile became a trial for us. Religious people would come up to the TSR booth and start arguing with us about the evils of D&D. I'm proud to say we soon found an answer for them. I have a friend Dave Conant who worked in the typesetting department. He didn't get out to many conventions. Gen Con in August was a convention everyone working for TSR went to and did 40 hours. One Gen Con in August a particularly nasty gentlemen was berating the sales woman at the show. They didn't know what to think of the dude and wanted to be polite. I knew exactly what the guy was doing. He wanted to get 15 minutes of fame as a person concerned about the evils of D&D.

I was on my way over to give the guy the bums rush, when Dave showed up. He had taken his cross out of his shirt and started calmly talking to the guy. Dave established that the guy had never read one bit of the TSR material. The man only knew what he had heard from others. Then Dave started asking the guy questions about what he thought was wrong with the game. Dave was able to quote bible versus as he calmly and gently completely tore apart the guy's argument. I had always been impressed by Dave's technical skills, but I became even more impressed with his logical argument. From then on we had at least two religious TSR people at every convention. It was amazing how quick those anti-TSR people stopped coming at us at those shows.

Time passed and TSR started working on AD&D 2nd edition. By then I had come to a realization. At conventions I had been in on many discussions about the evils of AD&D. Literally every single person coming up to argue about the game had never read one word of the books. Their argument when questioned about that fact was “We don't need to read about Satan to know he is evil.” So I came up with an idea. In second edition I ordered Zeb Cook to develop a new name for Demons & Devils.

Baatezu/Devil & Tanarri/Demon were born in second edition. Zeb did a terrific job of putting all that together.

We still had the same type of demons and devils but we called them completely different names. The word spread out that TSR had taken out all of the demons and devils in the game. Technically that wasn't true at all. But again like the click of a light switch the arguments and comments stopped. TSR picked up lots of new accounts in the Bible Best of the south. Every time it was mentioned a TSR person would tell them the company didn't have devils any more. It pleased everyone at TSR that the company didn't get any grief on that topic.
 

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Jim Ward

Jim Ward

Drawmij the Wizard

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
I am an atheist here. I liked mythology even before I started playing rpg's in the early/mid 80's. Sure, it is interesting reading about wicca, and some of the occult. Does it work, nope.
I've been fascinated in Greek, Roman, Norse, and other mythologies for many years. I've read many books about those topics, and I didn't suddenly start worshiping Jupiter.

This is exactly the same thing. Learning about or enjoying a topic doesn't mean that you're going to start worshiping the things in topic.

I like learning about the origin of Asmodeus in Forgotten Realms lore. Does that make me start worshiping the Devil? No! Of course not. What'd he ever do for me? Absolutely nothing, because Asmodeus doesn't exist, as far as I'm aware of.
 

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Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
One thing I notice is that most of these Satanic claims were apparently from like super fundamentalist Protestsnt sects generally.
Yeah. I looked up the history of my church and D&D and their response to the Satanic Panic, as I wasn't alive in the 80s to experience it. They were surprisingly calm about it. D&D is not a bad activity unless you are purposefully doing bad things in it and encouraging those things.

I don't mean that it's wrong to murder someone in D&D, because every player has to learn from consequences in D&D. It's just not fun if you take away player agency, but you also shouldn't be doing things that are obviously bad, like sexual harassment or anything along those lines.
 

One thing I notice is that most of these Satanic claims were apparently from like super fundamentalist Protestant sects generally.

That's because the official position of the apostolic and pre-Reformation churchs (Catholic, Orthodox, Coptic) was and still is that there is no such thing as witchcraft or magic. All power comes from God and you can't commune with the devil or demons from below and get magic powers. Pre-Reformation no one got into trouble for "being a witch" or the like, you were more likely to get into trouble for accusing someone being a witch, because that is heresy. No 12th century bishop would be worrying about witchcraft, even though 12th century bishops had way more interactions with paganism than a modernism is. (Not to mention wicca and the like are not even slightly related to the old faiths. They are basically zeerust-ish reconstruction by 19th century antiquarians. Ditto hermetic traditions. They aren't authentic, they are 17th-19th century cosplay in a nutshell. Just like the Masons. Or Tarot Cards).

The reformation opened the floodgates, however, and these claims are more common in countries where Protestantism formed a great deal of the cultural landscape, especially the US - I think the New World's history of Great Revivals and as a haven for heretical and often persecuted christian sects explains a lot of the different religious ideas floating about.)
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
I am an atheist here. I liked mythology even before I started playing rpg's in the early/mid 80's. Sure, it is interesting reading about wicca, and some of the occult. Does it work, nope.

So, you claim Gygax took things from the hermetic tradition. Which one? Give us your proof of it.
Well, how about for the message spell, which requires two cups and a length of string... no, wait, that’s a kid’s tin can telephone...
..or the components for fireball, which are bat guano and sulphur.... no, wait, that’s gunpowder...
...or lightning bolt, which is an Amber rod and...fur....

...Dammit, they all came from jokes, didn’t they???

...yeah, sorry, not a lot of “real hermetic magic there.” There’s more Hermetic Magic in a child’s Easy Bake Oven... at least it actually baked cookies... 😃 at best, I think the DMG might have a couple of Enochian John Dee-type magic circles copied in for flavor, but with absolutely no context, about as risky as a Pentagram on a Heavy Metal album.
 

prosfilaes

Adventurer
And, I'm certain that quote is satire or sarcastic. TTRPGs don't increase occultism or fascination in the such.

I don't know. Personally, I've picked up a few volumes of historical magical theory and related, and of all the stuff in my youth, I can't see anything besides D&D that lead me that way. English Magical and Scientific Poems to 1700 sits on my shelf because I might find something for a D&D campaign someday, and the Dictionary of Demons and Devils is there because D&D, Tome of Horrors and Pathfinder all made use of historical demonic names (Lucifer, Asmodeus, Beelzebub, etc.) and I was curious what was historical and what was made up recently, and if there were more ideas in there to be made use of. It increases interest in occultism like it increases interest in swords and RenFairs.
 

I don't know. Personally, I've picked up a few volumes of historical magical theory and related, and of all the stuff in my youth, I can't see anything besides D&D that lead me that way. English Magical and Scientific Poems to 1700 sits on my shelf because I might find something for a D&D campaign someday, and the Dictionary of Demons and Devils is there because D&D, Tome of Horrors and Pathfinder all made use of historical demonic names (Lucifer, Asmodeus, Beelzebub, etc.) and I was curious what was historical and what was made up recently, and if there were more ideas in there to be made use of. It increases interest in occultism like it increases interest in swords and RenFairs.
And the occultism and hermetics in those 17th century books are about as authentic as Renfairs.
 

Dire Bare

Legend
You want to bet? Do you want to bet that most people on this forum are fascinated with occultism? You know the average D&D player nowadays is now young, people of the generation below you. We're not obsessed with occultism or anything of the sort. I'm a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which you'd know as Mormons. I can guarantee you that I'm not a cultist, D&D has not increased my curiosity in occultism, none of my players or previous DMs are this way either, and D&D does not encourage occultism.

And, I'm certain that quote is satire or sarcastic. TTRPGs don't increase occultism or fascination in the such.

Being a "cultist" is not quite the same thing as being interested in the occult, or even being an "occultist". Technically, a cult is nothing more than a small religion with few followers that sits outside mainstream religions. The term certainly has a pejorative connotation, and certainly some specific cults have been very dangerous for their own members (but rarely society at large, really). Every major religion today had its beginnings as a "cult" and were treated poorly by the established major religions of their time.

The occult is a vague term but most often refers to the Western esoteric traditions of European culture including hermetic magic, alchemy, kabbalism, and other mystic practices that have in common they are not Christian in origin. Occult beliefs and practices are not evil and are not dangerous. They are simply different. Whether they are "real" or not is a question similar to, "Is Christian belief real?" It is a matter of individual faith.

The occult is closely tied to European and Mediterranean mythology. The term "mythology" of course simply meaning, somebody else's religious beliefs that aren't mine. We often are fascinated by ancient myth, the mythology of peoples that no longer exist, at least not in the same cultural forms they do today.

Satanism, in the context of Christian belief, doesn't really exist. There are, of course, several modern religious groups that refer to themselves as Satanists . . . but if you read up on their beliefs, they are more about rejecting mainstream Christianity than worshiping an evil figure for power. Modern Satanists are not evil or dangerous either. But they do like to dress in black and freak out the squares.

The (traditional) fantasy genre, literature and games, pulls from European history, myth, and yes, occultism. Many of us come to D&D through an established interest in those topics, and/or develop an interest through the game. But to say that D&D is a "gateway to occultism" implies that it's common for D&D players to become occultists. Which, while not a bad thing, doesn't really happen all that often.

The Satanic Panic of the 80s made several false assumptions. That the magic in D&D was real, that the point of D&D was to learn real magic and summon real demons, that "Satanism" was a real thing (in context), that those who played D&D were in some sort of spiritual and/or emotional danger, and that religious/occult/mythic beliefs different from mainstream Christianity were "evil" and dangerous.
 

Well, how about for the message spell, which requires two cups and a length of string... no, wait, that’s a kid’s tin can telephone...
..or the components for fireball, which are bat guano and sulphur.... no, wait, that’s gunpowder...
...or lightning bolt, which is an Amber rod and...fur....

...Dammit, they all came from jokes, didn’t they???

...yeah, sorry, not a lot of “real hermetic magic there.” There’s more Hermetic Magic in a child’s Easy Bake Oven... at least it actually baked cookies... 😃 at best, I think the DMG might have a couple of Enochian John Dee-type magic circles copied in for flavor, but with absolutely no context, about as risky as a Pentagram on a Heavy Metal album.

Even John Dee was making the stuff up though. So even if it was "authentic", it'd basically be "fanon".
 

prosfilaes

Adventurer
And the occultism and hermetics in those 17th century books are about as authentic as Renfairs.

From the perspective of a non-believer, I don't know what it would mean for occultism to be authentic. From my perspective, and the (wildly differing) perspective of the Satanic Panic believers, the distinction between a spell coded in GW-BASIC and one used in the 12th century is one of time, not authenticity. And the side of my mind less grounded in reality would not be any more trusting that a spell in GW-BASIC was harmless than one written in a 12th century grimoire.
 

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