D&D General Joe Manganiello: Compares Early 5E to BG 3 . How Important is Lore?

MGibster

Legend
The RPG Cyberpunk is a good example of how changes shouldn't be stopped. When Cyberpunk 2020 1st Ed was published in 1988 by R Talsorian Games they imagined our current 2024 in a way. And we know what happen when predictions from sci-fi fail. Cyberpunk RPG can't be published today without a "technology update". It is not only the social revolution of the mobiles and internet, but also the new materials as the graphene. There are now some "cyborgs" but these are relatively rare.
When Cyberpunk was first published in 1988 the game was set in the year 2013. It wasn't until 1991 that Cyberpunk 2020 was released. I personally have no desire to update the Cyberpunk 2020 setting to be more in line with current technological expectation and would simply run it as a retro future setting.
 

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MGibster

Legend
Most people like to re-imagine ideas? I don't think you can take that as a truism. Some people like to re-imagine ideas, and some people don't. Why else is the original Star Wars trilogy more popular than the sequels?
Because the sequel trilogy was hot garbage and the prequel series suffered from a combination of being somewhat boring, having a terrible character, and none of us were 8 years old. When Star Wars was released in 1977 it was a breath of fresh air.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
My man, Star Wars being more popular is because the sequels were worse movies, not because of a love for the purity of the original stories. All you're saying is that bad remakes are unpopular. I agree.
What I'm saying is that is untrue that most people like re-makes.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Practically speaking, whomever owns the IP can do whatever they want including going back and changing established lore. I don't categorically reject changes made, but that doesn't mean I'll like every change that is made.
No one is denying that WotC has the right to change things however they want. I just wish they wouldn't. Changing the history of an imagined world offends my sensibilities.
 

My man, Star Wars being more popular is because the sequels were worse movies, not because of a love for the purity of the original stories. All you're saying is that bad remakes are unpopular. I agree.
This is also the direction in which I interpret Manganiello's comments - while he praises older lore and early 5e under Mearls' helm, it seems he isn't generally opposed to lore changes. For the most part, it seems he doesn't believe that the current D&D leadership is doing it well, and other people - including himself in the case of Dragonlance - would do it better.
 

the Jester

Legend
Not overwriting, invalidating, or discarding the old lore IS repeating verbatim.
I'm sorry, but that is ridiculous.

"Verbatim" means to repeat the exact words. You can add lore to things without overwriting, invalidating, or discarding old lore. For example, 2e added a ton of new lore to basically every monster- their ecology, their habitat/society- without discarding or invalidating anything (or at least, vanishingly little).

Beholders didn't have a described reproductive cycle in 1e. This was added lore in 2e. This didn't overwrite, invalidate, or discard anything.

The new lore completely discards or changes things like beholder hives, great mothers, the huge number of beholder kin that existed before, the nature of beholder society, etc. None of the new stuff actually improves beholders, it just changes them. It wasn't necessary and it didn't fix anything that was broken.

So, let's take gnolls. In earlier editions, they were just hyena headed humanoids, not much different than a dozen other humanoids in the game.
I would dispute that claim. Gnolls did have distinctive features that set them apart. Unlike goblins and orcs, they didn't build their own villages or towns, they took over abandoned or cleared ones. They were heavily influenced by Yeenoghu. They were buddy buddy with trolls. They preferred intelligent prey because it screamed better. They always had captives as slaves or food. They completely eradicated local game to the point that it took years to return before leaving an area.

The differences weren't always played up and weren't always consistently portrayed, but they were there in the lore. There were even a series of old Dragon articles about the points of view of various humanoid types which would help to set them apart from each other.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
This is also the direction in which I interpret Manganiello's comments - while he praises older lore and early 5e under Mearls' helm, it seems he isn't generally opposed to lore changes. For the most part, it seems he doesn't believe that the current D&D leadership is doing it well, and other people - including himself in the case of Dragonlance - would do it better.
Imagine that!
 



Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
No one is denying that WotC has the right to change things however they want. I just wish they wouldn't. Changing the history of an imagined world offends my sensibilities.
Then don't complain if they don't make new books of your setting and stop supporting those settings

Because that's usually the issue.
 

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