John Cooper reviews MMIII, and finds loads of mistakes

Davelozzi said:
What makes John legendary? I've never heard of him before.
Exactly my first thought. My second thought was to agree with Naathez and philreed.

And my third thought is that, despite the fact that the rules don't really matter that much, wouldn't it be better to have them right when you decide that?
 

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I'm really pleased that John is a reviewer here as his reviews are so thorough and this review is no exception.

One thing I didn't understand with MMIII were why there were several examples of vermin with some an array of special abilities that they would have been more properly classified as magical beasts or aberrations. Of course, I realise that the answer is simply the desire to have a certain number of vermin at a particular CR... despite this being a bad design philosophy.
 



Joshua Dyal said:
And my third thought is that, despite the fact that the rules don't really matter that much, wouldn't it be better to have them right when you decide that?

Joshua, you've perfectly summed up an opinion I was unable to vocalize. Nicely stated.
 


Good review, but I don't see the poin t with all the nitpicking. Who cares if the Arrow Demon and Gorilla/Spider thing pictures are a little out. Also I don't really care less about stat inconsitences so long as what is printed is playable and not obviously wrong ( I don't have time to go through the books and no desire to do so either).
 

Joshua Dyal said:
And my third thought is that, despite the fact that the rules don't really matter that much, wouldn't it be better to have them right when you decide that?

Yes. I'm just saying that the errors listed in no way effect my enjoyment of the book.
 

First, I should say that I certainly understand why some people don’t get wound up about small math errors. Some of my favorite source books for my campaign are from different game systems altogether, particularly Ars Magica. When I plunder one of those books for ideas, I have no idea or even interest whether the game mechanics behind those ideas are rock solid or completely rotten.

For most of my DMing career (starting back in 1st edition AD&D), I almost completely improvised all encounters using just the average PC levels, ACs, hps, and THAC0s. My notes would only say something like "this is a bad-ass ogre," and when it came time to roll the dice I would fudge the stats on the fly to fit the situation.

But for me 3e is different, because there is a solid game mechanic framework underlying everything. I take a wonkish delight in seeing how all the little parts fit neatly together. From an aesthetic perspective, I appreciate good craftsmanship for its own sake. But I also realize that not everyone groks clean, elegant game mechanics.

But from a practical perspective, I also want to have confidence that the stats in my books are solid and reliable. Because sometimes, I need to quickly pull a monster out of those books and drop it into a game.

Just two weeks ago I ran an out-of-the-book encounter that resulted in a PC death from a claw attack that did 1d8+6 points of damage. Only afterward did I realize that the attack should have done only 1d8+4 -- the designers had incorrectly used 1-1/2 the monster’s Str bonus for damage. What was the different between 2 points of damage? As it turned out, one dead PC.

Does that mean I freak if a stat block has a wrong skill bonus? No -- as almost everyone recognizes, skill bonuses are one of the most complex pieces of the d20 system and also one of the least important for running most encounters. Knowledge (geography) +6 as opposed to +5? Whatev. So a glitch here and there is OK.

But if the glitches are here and EVERYWHERE, that’s a problem. What's worse: a lot of little errors or a few big errors? Neither is really very good. It suggests a level of carelessness that might run deeper than just math mistakes. Maybe these monsters haven't been properly playtested. Maybe some fundamental aspect of a special attack hasn’t been thought out thoroughly.

Note that John doesn’t even look at skill bonuses in his review -- almost all of the game mechanics that he calls out are important numbers in running the encounter: AC, hit points, save DCs. What’s the difference between 2 points of damage? See anecdote above.

And keep in mind this is only one guy, looking at this book one time, for one week. Sometimes, there are mechanical problems that run deeper than just the surface math, and can only be found in a playtest.

So based on John's review, the sheer number and type of errors in the MM III is, to me, deeply troubling. But also troubling is who is making these errors. I think Wizards of the Coast should be held to a higher standard than most other publishers. Different contexts demand different standards.

If you invite me over to your house for steaks and you accidentally overcook my porterhouse, no problem -- I'm not gonna complain and I’m not going to hold it against you, even though I may not like it. But if I take you out to a nice restraint, pay $200 a plate, and get overcooked steak, I'm sure as heck going to be ripped.

So if I buy a $5 pdf that is riddled with errors, that's still not cool but doesn’t really get me very incensed, either. But If I'm buying a $35 hardcover book from the industry leader, I expect that book to have excellent production values, including editing. Do I expect perfection? No, not at all. Given the complexity of the game system, some errors are inevitable. But to accept simple math mistakes on 38% of the monster entries? That seems a bit much, to me.
 
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philreed said:
Yes. I'm just saying that the errors listed in no way effect my enjoyment of the book.
Oh, absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I actually quite like my Creature Collection book, and I use it somewhat frequently. I didn't care to pick up the Revised version, despite the common opinion that the book is riddled with errors. Hasn't changed my enjoyment of it at all.

But, all other things being equal, I'd much rather have a book that is mechanically correct than one that's not. No matter how low you prioritize mechanical soundness, it's always better to have than to not have.

Probably not at the expense of certain other qualities, but that's an individual decision.
 

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