JollyDoc's Shackled City

[Lela]

10 Potions of Hide?

Thanks gfunk. I really think I will end up using Pez as a major feature in my next campaign. It all depends on where we start (and what the PC's do in this one) but I hope it'll work out.

 

[JollyDoc]

Hi to all of you and let me just say this is a great story.

That said I am actually responding to the last round of stats presented by Gfunk. I do not own Savage species but the dm in me is set on code orange when i look at Pez stats and abilities. Gfunk and Jollydoc do you honestly think he is on par with a 7th level character (lets say a cleric). To me he looks, at least on paper, to be far better in almost any way.

The only downside seems to be less Hd and thus less hp (possibly not due to better Con), fewer feats and lower max skill ranks.

This is not meant to be critisism, I am simply curious as to what balances Pez, in my eyes, superiority. I have not yet been in games with real "monster" characters and may overlook some glaring weakness.

I'll defer to Gfunk's more than adequate explanation on this one, only adding in that, from a DM perspective, there is more than one way to skin a celestial, and as per the examples mentioned, Pez has had his fair share of ignominy, and has not been overbalancing in any way thus far. We shall see how it all plays out.

 

[JollyDoc]

Do you really think a paladin can add some variety to the group? I was kinda hoping for an arcane spellcaster... Still Raphael makes a nice first impression - he doesn't come across as uptight as most paladins (or Pez). Still, we will see how he fares in the upcoming combat!



I hate it when I have to face prepared enemies on their own ground. Hopefully those circumstances do not prove fatal for our heros.


Nice update, JollyDoc. Getting to know about the background (i.e. what's happening in town) really adds to the story and the dilemma that adventurers sometimes face: Butt-kicking for goodness is not always rewarded.

Thanks NWK, I actually enjoy detailing life outside the dungeon than I do the battle scenes. As for the paladin adding variety, I think you'll enjoy this one. He is a negotiator, not a battle hardened warrior. His player (Ben, a new player to our group) has not min/maxed him at all, which I admire. So, he'll either add a new role-playing dimension...or he'll die very quickly.

 

[Lela]

Thanks NWK, I actually enjoy detailing life outside the dungeon than I do the battle scenes. As for the paladin adding variety, I think you'll enjoy this one. He is a negotiator, not a battle hardened warrior. His player (Ben, a new player to our group) has not min/maxed him at all, which I admire. So, he'll either add a new role-playing dimension...or he'll die very quickly.

Hmmmm, maybe he and Pez will kill each other. . . Poor Jochaim though, left out on this one.

Oh, gfunk, just for conversation have you ever thought about what would happen if Pez went evil? I occured to me while I was sitting here as my group's Paladin recently got screwed over and is now trying to find the right evil deity to reflect his new take on life. He's actually having a lot of trouble and may just seek to become a god himself instead.

Anyway, I'm rambling again. But any thoughts on Pez?

JollyDoc, let me know if this line (and other's like it) are better left to anther thread. It's your story; I'm just loving it. _

 

[Neverwinter Knight]

Hmmmm, maybe he and Pez will kill each other. . . Poor Jochaim though, left out on this one.

Oh, gfunk, just for conversation have you ever thought about what would happen if Pez went evil? I occured to me while I was sitting here as my group's Paladin recently got screwed over and is now trying to find the right evil deity to reflect his new take on life. He's actually having a lot of trouble and may just seek to become a god himself instead.

Anyway, I'm rambling again. But any thoughts on Pez?

JollyDoc, let me know if this line (and other's like it) are better left to anther thread. It's your story; I'm just loving it. _

Well Lela, we already talked about Pez sometimes coming across as a little too ?lawful neutral? in our opinion ? which was btw probably the reason for Pez? time on the prime. I think gfunk is doing a great job with playing Pez, since it wouldn?t be in character to have learned his lesson already.
As for turning evil ? which is of course every player right ? I think in Pez? case it would require a combination of a powerful emotion (e.g. Tilly is killed by a member of the snotty rich kids and the law allows them to walk free) and a big gain (magic, allies,?). I hope Pez will remain true to his path, however, since I love his attitude and inner dialogue.

"Mortals..." *sigh*

 

[gfunk]

Oh, gfunk, just for conversation have you ever thought about what would happen if Pez went evil?

No, not really but I have considered an alignment shift to Lawful Neutral. I think sooner or later Pez will have some serious ethical problems living in a frontier town. Obviously, lip service is given to upholding the law but there is a tremendous amount of nefarious activity going on in Cauldron (e.g. Mercanary companies like the Alleybashers). Not to mention the apparent total apathy of many of the churches, especially Kelemvor and Tempus.

An interesting phenomenon is that even if Pez's alignment turns evil, his subtypes always remain Lawful and Good. Therefore, he would still be subject to spells like Chaos Hammer and Unholy Blight, even if he was chaotic evil. In Savage Species, they illustrate this by giving the example of a Succubus Paladin.

Personally, I'm beginning to get ticked off by Tyr's clergy in Cauldron. I feel that they do not give me sufficient responsibility suitable to my station and that we lack a public outreach. Given the general unfriendliness of the other faiths, it seems that we could win a great PR victory in Cauldron.

In any case, JollyDoc is not quite caught up with the updates yet (we have started the third module in the adventure path already). However, in the latest session it appeared that Pez and friends would run afoul of the city guard . . . again. I'll just give you a little teaser -- Pez saw a bunch of guards "abusing their authority." He detected evil on them and the rest, as they say, was history.

 

[gfunk]

I hope Pez will remain true to his path, however, since I love his attitude and inner dialogue.
"Mortals..." *sigh*

Thanks!

Mortals piss me off, I would never let them talk down to me.

If they tried anything, I'd be all like,

HEY! Get your bitch ass back in the kitchen AND MAKE ME SOME PIE!

 

[Neverwinter Knight]

In any case, JollyDoc is not quite caught up with the updates yet (we have started the third module in the adventure path already).

Oh oh... JollyDoc, be careful not to get so horribly behind on your updates. As you continue playing, the amount of material keeps growing and growing...

However, in the latest session it appeared that Pez and friends would run afoul of the city guard . . . again. I'll just give you a little teaser -- Pez saw a bunch of guards "abusing their authority." He detected evil on them and the rest, as they say, was history.

Nice teaser - well, what's an archon to do?

 

[Joachim]

I have been out of pocket the past week, and it appears that I have missed some good conversations. My two cents worth:

The Great Archon vs. PC Class Argument

These are the facts, on paper, and I will let the readers decide. Note that we used the point-buy system for stats, so no comment can be made that someone rolled a superior character up. Here you go....

Pez has the 2nd highest hit points in the group (only to Gardrid the barbarian), which are effectively increased with DR 5/evil (reduced hit dice is no effect at this level due to his high CON) and the only other party member with DR is Gardrid at comparably paltry 1/-. Pez has the highest total base to hit in the group (tied with Gardrid). Pez has the highest base damage roll in the group at 2d6+7 (Gardrid second with 1d12+5). Pez has the highest base AC (26) in the group (closest being Rusty's 21 or 22). Pez's total and mean saves (27 and 9, respectively) are the highest in the group (Gardrid second at 21 and 7, respectively). Gardrid does get a second iterative attack that Pez does not get, and for purposes of this comparison I did not consider stat boosts for raging (of course, I didn't consider the Divine Powered Pez either).

Those are the 'combat numbers'. Then there's the "fringe benefits". Base move of 40. Natural flight. Elemental and poison resistances. Cast clerical spells (with domain access and slots) as a similar character our level. Trumpet that can paralyze all within 20' at will. Built-in +2 weapon that gets better with level. If you compare Trumpet Archons with a 20th level character, then you can see the vulnerabilities, but Pez will still be a force to reckon with between now and then.

Whoever reads this should not take it as though I am bemoaning the situation. I think that Pez is a very cool character. I am just pointing out the cold hard truth of the matter (on paper). Now, anyone can roll a "1" on a save and anyone can get a crit rolled against them, and that is the fun with D&D...you just don't know.

 

[gfunk]

Joachim, good arguments but some, AFAIK, are not exactly accurage.

Pez has the 2nd highest hit points in the group (only to Gardrid the barbarian)

Not anymore, I believe he has the 3rd highest since Tilly recently leveled up and is multiclassing with Fighter. The halfling has one or two hp more than me.

Pez has the highest total base to hit in the group (tied with Gardrid).

Correct, however when you calculate Gardrid's second iterative attack (which you mentioned) *and* his ability to Cleave, which has given him many extra attacks *and* his ability to rage as a free action (no AoO, can full attack in the same round) I think the barbarian is the clearly superior melee combatant.

Pez's total and mean saves (27 and 9, respectively) are the highest in the group (Gardrid second at 21 and 7, respectively).

I think you may be forgetting Raphael's save bonuses. As a 4th level Aasimar Paladin, he gets +2 Wis and +2 Cha. I'm pretty sure he has 18 in both stats. Right now he's only 4th level (5th ECL) and his base save bonuses are 4/2/2. After stats are factored in they become 6/4/6 and after Divine Grace, they end up as 10/8/10 giving him a total of 28 and a mean of 9.3. Remember that these will be higher when he hits the same level as Pez.

Then there's the "fringe benefits". Base move of 40. Natural flight. Elemental and poison resistances. Cast clerical spells (with domain access and slots) as a similar character our level. Trumpet that can paralyze all within 20' at will. Built-in +2 weapon that gets better with level.

No arguments here, there are definitely a lot of benefits.

Overall, I don't think Pez has been unbalancing thus far. But this could be entirely fortuitous based on the roll of the dice.