Jonathan Tweet denounces Power Attack

[BryonD]

It's nice that you never saw it cause a slowdown. But given that lots of people in this thread have said that they did see it cause slowdowns, accusing this of being a "change for change's sake" is more than a bit inappropriate. Obviously, it's been a problem for some people; the fact that you weren't one of them doesn't mean it's not something that needs to be addressed.

And the "dumb it down" drumbeat grows just a little louder.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And the "dumb it down" drumbeat grows just a little louder.

Meh. I've never yet seen an argument that the game is being "dumbed down" that holds any weight with me.

To me, streamlining the on-the-fly math isn't "dumbing things down," it's smoothing out gameplay. If and when that streamlining harms the overall play experience, then maybe I'll agree with you.

But this? Not so much. Especially considering that the people I've seen stopped in their tracks by Power Attack are among the smartest people I know.

 

[IanB]

But this? Not so much. Especially considering that the people I've seen stopped in their tracks by Power Attack are among the smartest people I know.

I can definitely back this up (well not about how smart the people Ari knows are. )

And in addition I think glass's point about PA actually making your character worse if you just go off of your gut needs to be reinforced. The fact that PA more or less requires an excessive amount of time spent looking at the variables of a given situation in order to be a net positive, *and* the fact that it costs a precious resource (a feat) to even have access to it is, in combination, broken.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Meh. I've never yet seen an argument that the game is being "dumbed down" that holds any weight with me.

WOTC still batting .1000 at Marmell Park.

 

[MerricB]

But this? Not so much. Especially considering that the people I've seen stopped in their tracks by Power Attack are among the smartest people I know.

The smarter you are, the more likely Power Attack will slow the game down.

No, seriously. Because smart (ok, mathematically gifted) people understand the tradeoff between attack bonus and damage and may well try to optimise it... which takes more and more time.



Cheers!

 

[Piratecat]

Now see, here we have the word rape used in context of 4e bashers.

Yet when someone says something like 4e apologists, it's a group attack.

The mods need to make sure to hit both sides of this fence nicely. Getting a little rep on other boards for the pro 4e fandom.

Have a problem with moderation? Email the moderator. Have a problem with a post? Report the post. But don't discuss it in the thread. You know that.

To be crystal clear, folks: we don't care if you're pro-4e or against it. It makes absolutely no difference to Morrus, Henry or myself. But we certainly expect both sides to be polite and civil about it. If you can't do that, don't post.

 

[Piratecat]

Yep, just like people feel that WotC releasing 4th Ed is a personal, vindictive move to rape their wallets and ruin their gaming experience…

I'll point out that many people who don't like 4e don't feel this way. Dislike does not inherently equal fearful zealotry, nor should it. The "Razz"s of the world are few and far between.

Think about it: change means uncertainty, both for acquiring players and for the stability of campaigns. Change means expense. Both of these are worrisome for a lot of people, and both of these are a problem even for people who are willing to keep an open mind about 4e. This isn't a binary sets of sides, it's a continuum, with peoples' opinions scattered all up and down the scale. Not only that, many people simply don't care either way.

So please don't try to paint everyone with the same brush. It makes conversations much more difficult.

 

[Nifft]

One of the smartest guys I've ever played with always, always, always forgets Power Attack.

I think it's because he's more into role-playing, and Power Attack is a purely out-of-character meta-game declaration.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Umbran]

I think it's because he's more into role-playing, and Power Attack is a purely out-of-character meta-game declaration.

It doesn't have to be. Couple players I know took the feat not to optimize, but to demonstrate when their characters were getting cheesed off - the more angry they were, the more they went for the hard hit. Consider telling your friend about that - make it a way for the rules ot reflect character anger

 

[Mouseferatu]

WOTC still batting .1000 at Marmell Park.

Not entirely. Maybe closer to, oh, .0925.

But I think that's actually irrelevant as to whether or not I feel they're "dumbing down" the game, which was the specific issue I was addressing. I can agree or disagree with a rules change, separately from whether I agree or disagree with its motivations. And even the few rules I dislike, I don't attribute to "dumbing down."