Judges Guild revival

[thundershot]

While I wish this product line to do well and I do like C&C, it has some major hurdles to cross. First off a new company with only one employee is going to release over 20 new products? TLG itself only barely manages to produce a few things every year. Second, Necromancer lost money on JG stuff. And most hardcore fans of JG have already bought the stuff that Necromancer put out. I did and I certainly won't be buying it again just because it's for C&C. Third, C&C is a small niche game- growing or not. JG fans who use C&C is a small niche of a small niche. Good luck. :\

A shrinking d20 market is still bigger than a growing C&C.

Sorry, but I'm sticking with d20... I have no need nor desire to switch systems.



Chris

 

[johnsemlak]

While I wish this product line to do well and I do like C&C, it has some major hurdles to cross. First off a new company with only one employee is going to release over 20 new products? TLG itself only barely manages to produce a few things every year. Second, Necromancer lost money on JG stuff. And most hardcore fans of JG have already bought the stuff that Necromancer put out. I did and I certainly won't be buying it again just because it's for C&C. Third, C&C is a small niche game- growing or not. JG fans who use C&C is a small niche of a small niche. Good luck. :\

I"m afraid I'll have to agree with this analysis. I wish Mysteros well in the project but I think it will be tough. I admit it's made me slightly more interested in the C&C system but probably not enough to buy it or start playing it.

I'm a bit surprised that already 20 products have been announced. If the publisher fails to deliver all the announced products, there could be some fan backlash.

Best of luck

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Well, for those who would like to take a peek at C&C without dedicating $40 for those two books, there's a condensed version of the game available for $12.95.

http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102B.html

 

[seskis281]

Hell,

You can purchase C&C via Amazon for just under $13 for each of the core books (the 2nd Printing PHB answered alot of the complaints of the 1st printing) and I think Amazon still has an offer for "buy both" for around $25.

This is a sweet value, and despite those decrying it C&C IS an OGL/d20 product - just essentialized to its best core values with a better integration to the style and flavor of 1e. As a starting base, it's always easier to ADD house rules that expand some area not covered in the rules rather than convincing your players to IGNORE something that is in front of them... I can't name how many times when running 3e I'd make a ruling and the game would stop as players opened their books (which surrounded us like a disheveled library) to point to why I was wrong. C&C doesn't have feats - excellent by me as I view this as symptomatic of overpowering PCs, but if you like them ADD them back in - it's simple to quickly create your own feat progression and take what you like from other systems. Skill checks? The C&C SIEGE engine wipes it away and uses the 6 basic attributes as quick and simple common sense skill check modifiers. There are also supplements and "secondary skills" material being bandied about the community. The upcoming Castle Keeper's Guide (which won't be a core book, just an expansion supplement for GM's) will offer a bunch of other varients. TLG just recently published their pdf with multiclassing ideas, and there are varients on this as well.

Those who say "oh it's BASIC D&D" are really off base - as I sit here I have the 1e AD&D phb and my C&C phb and they are quite similar, although to me C&C cleans up the cumbersome attributes of 1e and marries in the d20 SRD rules that really make sense. I will say be sure and get the 2nd PRINTING - I suspect that many who say they don't like C&C say so based on the 1st printing, which was rushed a bit and a little less than desired in terms of a published product.

"Turn back from the ways of the Dark Side...."

Give the Crusade a try, and you might well be surprised (especially as I said at the top - $25 bucks at Amazon gets you both core books).

And with all the Ptolus-mania, I will plug Gary Gygax's Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh setting for C&C - it is excellent! There is also growing adventure/module support not only from TLG, but from Goodman Games, free stuff via Drangonsfoot and other sites.

John

 

[dagger]

Well, for those who would like to take a peek at C&C without dedicating $40 for those two books, there's a condensed version of the game available for $12.95.

http://www.trolllord.com/newsite/cnc/80102B.html

25$ and change at Amazon with No Tax and no shipping...

A shrinking d20 market is still bigger than a growing C&C.

Sorry, but I'm sticking with d20... I have no need nor desire to switch systems.[/url]

C&C is d20, its a much needed upgrade of 1st AD&D to d20.

 

[rebarton2]

I am still surprised by all those who seem to make system the overriding factor in any and all RPG purchase. I own many systems, and many variants for many systems; sometimes I feel like one, sometimes another. But the point of this thread was not really to provoke a new battle in the System Wars, but rather to extol the virtues of what appears to be an exciting new line of products based in a classic setting. As I've said elsewhere, as a JG fan I'd buy the setting if it were made for T&T or RQ or TriStat or whatever. In the case of a cool setting, the coolness of the setting trumps the system.

Anyone who has followed James Mishler's interesting (and detailed) fan commentary and advice over on the JG forums over at NG will know that this is not a start-from-scratch project; I suspect he's got much of this stuff ready to go (plus in a recent post he said he'd probably author only the first volume in each series).

Frankly, I'd applaud the appearance of only a few volumes of the projected 23. As someone who doesn't have the original JG material (and is unwilling to haunt ebay to find them), I am excited by any reappearance of an old friend.

I guess I'm surprised by gamers who say 'It's not [system X], therefore it's useless to me'. I've always been able to bring together material from lots of cool products to make the best campaigns and gaming experiences.

G

 

[DangerDwarf]

And with all the Ptolus-mania, I will plug Gary Gygax's Castle Zagyg: Yggsburgh setting for C&C - it is excellent!

Yeah, Yggsburgh is easily one of the best RPG products I've seen for any system.....ever.

As a jaded, long-time gamer I can with all honesty say that few products get me excited these days. However, the upcoming JG stuff for C&C are books I'm actually looking forward to. Hell, to be perfectly honest, alot of C&C stuff makes me lose my jaded "been there done that" look at gaming.

It looks to be an ambitious project with what, 23 books announced thus far? I hope he can get all of them put out, if not I'll still be happy with the ones that do get published. This is easily one of the best pairings I've seen in a long while.

C&C and the WIlderlands? How can it not be good.

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Uhm...dagger...just to make sure...that second quote of yours, that isn't from me.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I guess I'm surprised by gamers who say 'It's not [system X], therefore it's useless to me'. I've always been able to bring together material from lots of cool products to make the best campaigns and gaming experiences.

And very few people on this thread (or even this board) are actually like that. (See all the threads about how much pre-3E material is used in games.) But when amazing books like Redhurst got hurt because they were 3E in a 3.5 world, it's not difficult to guess that editions and game systems matter to the majority of consumers. (Incidentally, Redhurst, which is almost systemless, would be great in C&C, and it fits the tone of Castle Zagyg pretty well, IMO.)

And a tiny sliver growing versus a the majority of the pie dwindling still boils down to a tiny sliver and a majority. It's not an edition war thing to be surprised that someone wants to have the sliver as their market.

Castle Zagyg is a very different classic feel than the Wilderlands -- I know, because I used both TSR and Judges Guild material back in the 1E era. There will not be 100 percent overlap in the C&C customer base. The JG stuff will be a smaller percentage of that small sliver.

I suspect this really boils down to a personal preference, rather than business decisions, and I hope that the financial end of it holds up well enough to make this project profitable enough to reach completion.

That's all. No edition wars, no bashing, just a head-scratch and a fare thee well.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I guess I'm surprised by gamers who say 'It's not [system X], therefore it's useless to me'. I've always been able to bring together material from lots of cool products to make the best campaigns and gaming experiences.

That's not my problem at all. There are 60+ RPGs on my shelves, so I buy a lot of product for a variety of systems.

Like many on these boards, I'll buy GURPS historical sourcebooks to help supplement my games, and I hate GURPS!

I'm currently using True Sorcery alongside Urban Arcana and Epic Rules to help devise a new spell researching system for an upcoming campaign. True 20 isn't a game I own, but I'm fusing the mechanics of that product and the WotC products to get the results I need.

However, I don't buy adventures/pure campaign settings for games I don't play- similar to something I play or not. It's simply not worth my effort.

Like the man sez:

That's all. No edition wars, no bashing, just a head-scratch and a fare thee well.