Jump checks and Ability checks

[Slushpuppiet]

Concerning the jump check, doesn't it seem a bit ridiculous that a person with 10 strength and no ranks in jump averages 10-11 feet on a long jump, and even more ridiculous that sometimes, trying their hardest, they can only jump 1 feet, and then a few seconds later and perform a miracle and leap 20 feet through the air? (Running jump's of course) Has anyone implemented any house rules for this?

Also, the epic boots of swiftness say "the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height", but is there anywhere in the 3.5 D&D rules that say that your jump distance normally is? Is this an old 3.0 rule that didn't get updated in the epic level handbook?

On to ability checks, it basically relates to the first question. A hero with a 40 strength (+15 modifier) attempts to break down a "good wooden door" but by chance they roll a 1 or a 2 on this DC of 18. Then "Mr. Level 1 Commoner With 10 Strength" comes along, roles a 20, and rips the door off the hinges no problem. Shouldn't someone with this immense amount of strength be able to bash down a wooden door like this no problem, even if they're having an "off" day?
Same question stands here: Has anyone implemented any house rules for this?

New question: Are my complaints not valid? Should someone with 10 strength and no ranks in jump be able to leap across 20 foot chasms? Should someone with 40 strength sometimes not be able to rip the door of its hinges like it's a piece of paper?

 

[slwoyach]

I don't have a problem with the 1' jump, he tripped. I do have a problem with the 20' jump though. As for the 40 strength, he can just take a 10.

 

[irdeggman]

Also, the epic boots of swiftness say "the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height", but is there anywhere in the 3.5 D&D rules that say that your jump distance normally is? Is this an old 3.0 rule that didn't get updated in the epic level handbook?

Yes.

In 3.0 the max distance you could jump was a function of your height, it is not in 3.5.

The Epic Rules in the SRD were not updated well. Some of the Epic Handbook rules got included in the 3.5 DMG but the Epic Handbook itself was not actually republished, there was an update manual though. But it itself says it is not comprehensive and tried to point out major differences. This is obviously one that got missed.

 

[irdeggman]

On to ability checks, it basically relates to the first question. A hero with a 40 strength (+15 modifier) attempts to break down a "good wooden door" but by chance they roll a 1 or a 2 on this DC of 18. Then "Mr. Level 1 Commoner With 10 Strength" comes along, roles a 20, and rips the door off the hinges no problem. Shouldn't someone with this immense amount of strength be able to bash down a wooden door like this no problem, even if they're having an "off" day?
Same question stands here: Has anyone implemented any house rules for this?

IMO this is no different than the PC with a +30 attack bonus "missing" a character with an AC of 10 on a natural 1 die roll or a kobold with an attack bonus of -2 being able to hit a PC with an AC of 50 on a natural 20 die roll.

The D&D combat system (and skill checks) is designed to be "vague" and not specific - it is also supposed to be "random".


Don't try to apply too much "logic" to the game or you become totally bogged down and a slave to physics and thus lose touch with the fact that it is a "game".

 

[Vegepygmy]

Concerning the jump check, doesn't it seem a bit ridiculous that a person with 10 strength and no ranks in jump averages 10-11 feet on a long jump, and even more ridiculous that sometimes, trying their hardest, they can only jump 1 feet, and then a few seconds later and perform a miracle and leap 20 feet through the air?

No, I don't have any problem with the 1-foot jump. That only occurs when you don't take 10, which means it should only happen when someone is trying to kill you. Under that kind of pressure, it's entirely possible to slip on the pool of blood from your decapitated foe's corpse (or what have you).

The 20-foot jump is more problematic, but not really, because nobody ever jumps 20 feet when they need to jump 20 feet. If a 19-foot jump means you're falling into a pit or the Chasm of Certain Doom, and your Jump modifier is +0, I'm betting you ain't gonna try it. So most of the time when you get that "20," you were only trying to jump 10 feet anyway, which means we don't have to worry about how unrealistic it is that you could have jumped 20 feet.

Also, the epic boots of swiftness say "the wearer’s jumping distance is not limited by his or her height", but is there anywhere in the 3.5 D&D rules that say that your jump distance normally is? Is this an old 3.0 rule that didn't get updated in the epic level handbook?

The Epic Level Handbook is a 3.0 publication. And yes, 3.0 had some lame rules about maximum jumping distance that 3.5 got rid of.

On to ability checks, it basically relates to the first question. A hero with a 40 strength (+15 modifier) attempts to break down a "good wooden door" but by chance they roll a 1 or a 2 on this DC of 18. Then "Mr. Level 1 Commoner With 10 Strength" comes along, roles a 20, and rips the door off the hinges no problem. Shouldn't someone with this immense amount of strength be able to bash down a wooden door like this no problem, even if they're having an "off" day?

"Can you open this bottle? Oh, you can? Well, I must have loosened it up for you."

New question: Are my complaints not valid?

I think your observations are valid. If they rise to the level of complaints, yeah, you've gone too far.

It's a game, not a perfect model of reality. And if these things bother you, dear lord, you'd better steer clear of 4E!

 

[Arkhandus]

Yeah, this is D&D, not GURPS. Slavish adherance to realism would make this a very different and comparatively dull game (no elves, magic-users, dragons, flaming swords, etc.). The PCs are HEROES. So what if D&D physics don't quite match up precisely with real-world physics. There's an Astral Plane, Elemental Planes numbering only 4 (or 16 in older editions, with para- and quasi-elemental planes) instead of just normal chemistry, a Shadow Plane, etc. D&D only needs a modicum of realism to maintain its feel.

Note that the roll determines how well your character tried. So your 40-Strength barbarian just failed to bust down the door? Well, that just means that he underestimated its construction and just tried pushing it from where he was standing. The 10-Strength commoner who rolled a natural 20 just rammed the door with all his might, knowing full-well that he isn't strong enough to just bust down a door with partial effort. But the barbarian just slightly overestimated his own awesome strength; so what? A few seconds later he decides "Screw this" and kicks down the door, or rams it from a few steps back. And the door goes flying, cuz that time he "takes 10" and gets a result of 25.

Also: even Hercules slips or trips over corpses/pools of blood/rocks the size of his foot for lack of total caution/alertness. Sure, the rock probably crumbles at the same time, but Herc would still stumble for a second.

 

[Slushpuppiet]

Thanks

Glad to get a lot of replies. Reading through them I see it's not such a bad thing, just depends on the circumstances really. I might just make a few exceptions to players depending on the circumstances when they roll really well or really poorly. Thanks for all the comments, and for now, I am staying away from 4E lol, but I may take a look into it in the near future.