D&D 5E June 17 Legend & Lore - Playtesting Dragons

[Nymrohd]

Heh Derren, you remind me of the morale system from the days of old

 

[MarkB]

In past editions dragons were a lot slower. With its 4 legendary actions it can move an additional 300ft (flight) or 120ft (water/ground) per round. Plus it automatically succeeds at a save if it wants and still has points left.
How long are bow ranges in 5E?

Personally I have no problem with that as I believe the players should work for their kills and that includes preventing the enemy from fleeing. But I do not believe that WotC suddenly sees it that way, too. So rather I wonder if WotC considers fleeing monsters a "valid" event in the game or if they just assume that everyone (excluding PCs) fights to the death.

Given that previous-edition dragons could already fly far faster than PCs could generally pursue them, this dragon's additional speed is merely icing on the cake.

And given that the dragon's write-up specifically says that an overmatched black dragon will do anything short of accepting subjugation to survive, it appears that WotC not only consider the possibility of escape, they're actually recommending it.

 

[Nymrohd]

Given that previous-edition dragons could already fly far faster than PCs could generally pursue them, this dragon's additional speed is merely icing on the cake.

And given that the dragon's write-up specifically says that an overmatched black dragon will do anything short of accepting subjugation to survive, it appears that WotC not only consider the possibility of escape, they're actually recommending it.

Well, at least in 3rd, your arcane caster would certainly have time to throw a long range spell or even two at a fleeing dragon and your archer would certainly manage a full volley. If the dragon was wounded enough to be fleeing, these could finish him off.

 

[MarkB]

Well, at least in 3rd, your arcane caster would certainly have time to throw a long range spell or even two at a fleeing dragon and your archer would certainly manage a full volley. If the dragon was wounded enough to be fleeing, these could finish him off.

If you're lucky, maybe - but that dragon's out to 600 feet in the first round at a full flying run. That's out in the fifth range increment for a longbow, and at the extremes of Long spell range, even assuming there's no terrain to duck behind.

 

[Nymrohd]

If you're lucky, maybe - but that dragon's out to 600 feet in the first round at a full flying run. That's out in the fifth range increment for a longbow, and at the extremes of Long spell range, even assuming there's no terrain to duck behind.

The 3rd edition dragon flies 2X200 ft a round right? 2x250 when it gets Gargantuan. Long range is 400 ft+40 ft./level (plus those measly 30 ft per round that you will be moving before casting).

 

[MarkB]

The 3rd edition dragon flies 2X200 ft a round right? 2x250 when it gets Gargantuan. Long range is 400 ft+40 ft./level (plus those measly 30 ft per round that you will be moving before casting).

An adult black dragon in 3.5e has a Flying speed of 150 ft, and a creature taking the Run action can move four times its speed, total 600 feet.

 

[JamesonCourage]

An adult black dragon in 3.5e has a Flying speed of 150 ft, and a creature taking the Run action can move four times its speed, total 600 feet.

But then it must move in a straight line, so no using terrain to hide behind. Still, pretty far out.

 

[Manbearcat]

This Dragon iteration is tied with Backgrounds for the two aspects of 5e that please me the most. I really like this through and through. Only two complaints:

1) Line breath weapons need to die in...an acid pool...collected neatly after said line of acid hits a wall after failing to hit more than one PC in what is supposed to be a functional AoE attack. They work terribly in play for both grid and TotM. They are tactically impotent and require too much mental overhead and handling time in adjudication. Blasts preferably and Cones failing that, please.

2) Legendary Resistance and Magic Resistance is too much spellcaster defense. I hate enemies (especially climactic foes) that effectively force some of my players (in this case caster players) into being basically wallflowers while their buddies (in this case martial players) upstage them dramatically. I don't want to run those combats and my players don't want to play them. Let me use Legendary Resistance against melee attacks as well as spells and boost the AC to something credible. Magic Resistance would then be reasonable. There is probably enough survivability in its other gimmicks (good skirmishing, decent control and the off-turn heals) to make up for the low HP pool.

 

[keterys]

Well, I'm not sure the melee fighters are really all that happy fighting the dragon either, as it just stays out of reach and breathes them to death and/or tail slaps them every which way.

It does mean those spellcasters may want some decent options that don't rely on saves, though. Scorching Ray and Magic Missile style spells to the rescue.

 

[Manbearcat]

Well, I'm not sure the melee fighters are really all that happy fighting the dragon either, as it just stays out of reach and breathes them to death and/or tail slaps them every which way.

It does mean those spellcasters may want some decent options that don't rely on saves, though. Scorching Ray and Magic Missile style spells to the rescue.

The off-turn skirmishing, control (prone, obscurement and total concealment) will certainly make for problems for melees. Couple that with copious difficult terrain (which one would expect in a Black Dragon lair) and it could turn into a frustrating action denial fest to the point that Legendary Resistance extended to martial attacks may be a bit too much. Archers on the other hand will have much less of a problem.

I'll have to check the spell list when I get home but I'm not sure there is much in the way of no save spells for Clerics and Druids...or is there?