Just a couple of questions

[Nahat Anoj]

I do, however, dislike class names that sound impressive or imposing. Fighter, for example, can be level 1 or level 30; he fights. Wizard can be level 1 or level 30; he casts arcane spells.

The word "wizard" to me connotes someon who has achieved an impressive and imposing level of magic, someone like Gandalf. I certainly wouldn't call a gawking apprentice a "wizard." So that's a pretty pretentious, high falutin' class name IMO.

 

[TheSeer]

I'll take a stab at this one. If I want a wizard in my game that lives as a hermet in the mountains and gained his powers by studying an old spellbook, he is not a "Golden Wyvern Adept" and is not part of any order. Such a heavy handed and wonky name gets in the way of things. I can honestly see new players looking at that and going, "What the #$%^ is that!?"

No place in the information we have been given has said that to use the Feat Golden Wyvern Adept means you have to be part of some order. It may be that it was given that name because the Golden Wyvern Adepts were the first to develop it and use it until other swiped it for their own use. So if people know that Golden Wyvern Adepts are known for spell shaping all you have to do is mention the name and people know what it does. Kind of like if in the real world if you describe someone as being Emo, it immediately brings to mind a style.

Stupid stuff like that takes away from the credibility of the game. It interferes with the story. Monk abilities called "diamond body" don't mean anything because they just describe a cool power that will never be named inside the game world. Where as "Golden Wyvern Adept" describes a wizardly order and directly infers that you are part of and associated with this organization.

Lastly, the name requires senseless memorization. It is easy to see "diamond body" and remember in general what the ability does because the name makes sense. "Golden Wyvern Adept" has nothing at all to do with anything. It requires me to look up the abilities each times because I have no clue whatsoever what the difference is between a "Golden Wyvern Adept" and a "Lightning Beaver Expert".

Again, you make the assumption that to learn the feat, you have to be part of a particular order and that has not been stated anywhere I have seen. If you have seen differently could you please link it so we can take a look. I don't particularly get how on one hand you describe something as not meaning anything because it won't be named inside the game world, but then have a problem doing the same thing with a different name. And how much harder is it to think that Golden Wyvern Adept means "Spell Shaping" than Diamond Body means "Immune to Disease"??? Both sets of names have no direct connection to the ability, but you say that one is easy to remember but the other one impossible. I don't understand.

P.S... Halfings are called that because they are half as TALL as a human, not because they are a half breed.

Yup, I knew that, I was just making a point

 

[TheSeer]

Well as we don't have much crunch to discuss and rant about, you know..... :\

Nice post, I do agree with you on all

Thanks!

And I'm all about the discussion, not everything is good with some of the changes, which is why the post. I just got tired of being frustrated at not knowing the reasoning behind the dislike/hatred and figured it's better to get it understood so that either I could see, or they could see.

 

[TheSeer]

I would guess that the real beef people have with the name "Dragonborn" is that it doesn't sound like a name that an actual race would call itself. We call ourselves human, not "Sons of Men". Dwarves could have been "Mountainfolk" or "Stonechildren", but it has a better sense of reality to it that a race would have a unique name for itself. A name that doesn't mean anything besides the name of that race.

Draconian. Dracon. Even something like Saurials. All of these sound like the name of a race.

Dragonborn sounds like a category or an organization. Like what some of those creatures might refer to themselves as, but not the race as a whole.

Hmm...a valid point. As a real world example I'm Black. Tho..not really. I'm more a cocoa-brown color. But my "race" of humanity has at various times in history been "given" names which we wouldn't necessarily call ourselves, but have stuck because others have thought they were appropriate and after awhile of trying, some have just given up and started calling themselves that. Like the current name of choice - African American. I'm not an African American. I've never been to Africa. If anything I'm an American African, but hey, there's nothing I can do about it. Others stuck me with this race name, not me. Same might apply to Dragonborn.

 

[Goken100]

*snip*

I'm with ya, I don't see all that much wrong with the flavor changes. Naming rules and abilities with things that don't make sense affects game play and is impractical to house rule, and thus I object to the Golden Wyvern nonsense. The rest is all good in the hood. For example, it's easy to say "don't make a Tiefling". Less easy to convince all your players to let you attack their Feat section with white-out and marker.

 

[Traycor]

Again, you make the assumption that to learn the feat, you have to be part of a particular order and that has not been stated anywhere I have seen. If you have seen differently could you please link it so we can take a look.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20070917a

It was in the Wizard impliments Design & Development article. It's very clear that the orders are directly tied to game mechanics. Nowhere does it state that you must be part of a certain order to use a certain ability, but from what I can tell you wizard has to be part of one of the orders in the book. For certain your order is tied to game mechanics.

 

[Traycor]

Hmm...a valid point. As a real world example I'm Black. Tho..not really. I'm more a cocoa-brown color. But my "race" of humanity has at various times in history been "given" names which we wouldn't necessarily call ourselves, but have stuck because others have thought they were appropriate and after awhile of trying, some have just given up and started calling themselves that. Like the current name of choice - African American. I'm not an African American. I've never been to Africa. If anything I'm an American African, but hey, there's nothing I can do about it. Others stuck me with this race name, not me. Same might apply to Dragonborn.

Also valid. This is probably what I will do with Dragonborn since my players' heads will explode if I start renaming the core races.

 

[Jinete]

And how much harder is it to think that Golden Wyvern Adept means "Spell Shaping" than Diamond Body means "Immune to Disease"??? Both sets of names have no direct connection to the ability, but you say that one is easy to remember but the other one impossible. I don't understand.

You really don't understand? I wouldn't think of immune to disease when I first hear of "Diamond Body", I would probably think resistant to damage. But immune to disease also works for me.

Diamonds are tough.
Disease weakens you.
You have a diamond body.
You are immune to disease.

Gold is precious.
Wyverns are kinda like dragons.
Adepts have a certain degree of skill.
You are a Gold Wyvern adept.
You can shape spells.

There's a gap in this train of thought somewhere.

 

[Zander]

Using "Warlord" as a class name is fine. Using "Warlock" as a class name is fine. Using both together is a really bad idea.

Well, if you get one of each working together as a pair, you can call them 'lock 'n' 'lord.

 

[resistor]

Hmm...a valid point. As a real world example I'm Black. Tho..not really. I'm more a cocoa-brown color. But my "race" of humanity has at various times in history been "given" names which we wouldn't necessarily call ourselves, but have stuck because others have thought they were appropriate and after awhile of trying, some have just given up and started calling themselves that. Like the current name of choice - African American. I'm not an African American. I've never been to Africa. If anything I'm an American African, but hey, there's nothing I can do about it. Others stuck me with this race name, not me. Same might apply to Dragonborn.

I actually have a homebrew that the Dragonborn would fit into well by this very method:

The dwarves, exiled from their traditional home, having been taking over the homeland of the lizardmen over the last several centuries. The whole interaction has a lot in common with the European Settler/Native American conflicts in America. Since the dwarves hate dragons (it was dragon who drove them from their home in the first place), I think they might apply the term Dragonborn to the lizardmen as a pejorative.