D&D 5E Just a reality check.

[Evenglare]

Also the different armors are there for scenarios that might be lacking in funds. For example in dark sun weapons and armor can break, sometime you may have to craft armor and weapons perhaps you can't do it well or you need to do it quick. Perhaps you get captured and can only find crappy armor, perhaps it's in a goblin lair. Theres a million different reasons that you might find yourself wearing less than perfect armor. It's not really hard to imagine.

 

[Henry]

Note 1: I know that's not the song title, but Autocorrect changed it and I'm keeping it.

So you're saying you chose flavor over optimization?
I agree by the way - just because someone prefers more mathematical optimization in their rules systems does not make that the only thing they care about. Putting rules concerns under the purview of "flavor" doesn't somehow make the issue resolved.

Note 2: I write 15 page backstories for my minmaxed characters.

Neither does a long backstory make a good roleplaying aid. I kind of fall with the Happy Jack's RPG Podcast crowd - the backstory is what your character did BEFORE they started adventuring - why would they be an adventurer if half their story has been told before you get to the table with your fellow players? Plus, as a DM, I wouldn't read somebody's 15 page fan fiction about their character, because if I did that, it means I'm volunteering to read 60 to 75 pages of fan fiction and make it work in my campaign, which is to much.

Perhaps if you were starting the game with 13th Level Characters, that might be different, but I can't conceive of a novice 1st level adventurer with 15 pages worth of life experiences that i'd want to read about - especially if he has so much more to contribute in conjunction with the other players!

 

[Mistwell]

Sure everyone complaining about things knows it is to late to do anything about it realy. The only hope is maybe something you want will be a rules module in the DMG. But the internet is for complaining about things, and after 2 years of playtesting to be handed this thing called Basic and we are supposed to thank them for not doing a good job is BS. I will play it because it is D&D, easy to get a game going and have members of my group that will play it for brand loyalty, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Damage values for spells and monsters are too high, hit points for PC's too low.

Armor and weapons charts are crap.

Very little class symmetry, like the rogue should have something that recharges with a short rest.

Top three off the top of my head, but I reserve the right to complain about anything, and I don't care if it will change anything I just want to be heard.

Now do my complaints mean it is not an ok game no, I will run it and play it no game is perfect, but given the amount of time and money they had to make something amazing they served us up a reheated microwave dinner when they should have given us prime steak.

Except that it seems like most people disagree with your view on that. In which case, it might just be you don't like prime steak. Maybe you were a vegetarian and never realized it?

 

[Mistwell]

Or, in the ideal world we should be living in, both preferences are prioritized, and I can build any character I want without being worried that my performance during play is going to suck.

Or, to reiterate a point that has been made ad nauseam, but with the understanding that you're a new poster: Being willing to play a suboptimal character and make suboptimal choices does NOT make you a better roleplayer. It simply means there's a portion of the game you're willing to ignore that many of us actually enjoy engaging. And we find having the "character envisioning" and the "mechanical effectiveness" portions of the game to be more enjoyable when they are NOT in conflict.

They are not in conflict. There are no traps in that list - they are all obvious. It doesn't take a rules optimizing scholar to figure out that Studded Leather gives 1 point better AC than Leather Armor, and so if optimization is your preference you will choose the Studded Leather. Similarly, if someone doesn't care about that, and they want Leather Armor for their character for role playing reasons, they can choose that. Or, if someone wants a world that's a bit more realistic, where some things just ARE better than other things (like a long bow just IS better than a sling, which is why the Long Bow won the historical weapon evolution fight handily), they get that. Both types people get what they want.

The only people who do not get what they want are the "I want everything to be equal", to whom I say, "Why?". As long as you know Studded Leather is mechanically better than Leather Armor, and you do know that, why do you care if they include both? Including both satisfies the "I want to role play leather armor and I don't care about the mechanics" people, and the "I want a realistic world where some things just are better than other things" people, without harming those who like to optimize.

Or is this some sort of OCD type thing, where if every peg is not the same height it makes you uncomfortable?

 

[Evenglare]

Except that it seems like most people disagree with your view on that. In which case, it might just be you don't like prime steak. Maybe you were a vegetarian and never realized it?

This is one of the best posts I've seen lol

 

[Paraxis]

Except that it seems like most people disagree with your view on that. In which case, it might just be you don't like prime steak. Maybe you were a vegetarian and never realized it?

You use the word "most" I doubt you have any way of proving that, and most of whom? Most people in a 5e forum thread..well yeah I would imagine most of the people posting here like the game more than I do. Most D&D players I doubt it.

 

[Mistwell]

You use the word "most" I doubt you have any way of proving that, and most of whom? Most people in a 5e forum thread..well yeah I would imagine most of the people posting here like the game more than I do. Most D&D players I doubt it.

Of course I have a way of proving that but I don't think you're interested in hearing it. You're interested in validation of your beliefs - you know, cause you're human. I can't fault you for that - I am interested in the same thing. But, I know when a discussion isn't going down a path that will lead to anything useful. Let's agree to disagree - I think people are in general pretty happy with 5e, and you think they are not, and we'll leave it at that.

 

[Sonny]

You use the word "most" I doubt you have any way of proving that, and most of whom? Most people in a 5e forum thread..well yeah I would imagine most of the people posting here like the game more than I do. Most D&D players I doubt it.

It would be easier to see your point of view if you actually provided links to these places where people are hating on the system. Given that these reactions prompted you to start a thread here about it, I don't think it's asking too much. It should be interesting to see what other forums are saying since I don't frequent too many RPG sites. Thanks!

 

[Paraxis]

It would be easier to see your point of view if you actually provided links to these places where people are hating on the system. Given that these reactions prompted you to start a thread here about it, I don't think it's asking too much. It should be interesting to see what other forums are saying since I don't frequent too many RPG sites. Thanks!

I didn't start any thread about people hating the system.

I don't hate the system, I dislike some parts of the system.

I didn't start saying my opinion had the "most" people supporting or validating it.

If there is any burden of proof it is on Mistwell for saying that "most" people like the system, I just said I doubted that "fact".

 

[TwoSix]

Or is this some sort of OCD type thing, where if every peg is not the same height it makes you uncomfortable?

I don't actually care about the armor table, to be perfectly honest. Light vs medium vs heavy, to me, is more than enough to make strategically relevant decisions. Whether or not your leather armor has metal pieces is a purely aesthetic consideration, for my interests, and can be safely devolved to the level of "character visualization".

I do grok the concern/desire of [MENTION=13009]Paraxis[/MENTION] to have different entries in a table have different mechanistic concerns outside of cost. It would make the decision of which armor to wear more of a decision point, which is something that those of us who are more mechanically minded enjoy.

But again, totally fine with having multiple armors on the table, some inferior, some superior, to assuage historical and "simulationist" concerns.

My primary concern in posting was seeing the regrettable rise of the "Ho ho, I just pick whatever, who cares about numbers, I'm a roleplayer!" meme, which is, at best, eyerolling, and at worst, actively derpy. So I tried (very politely, I thought) to inform a new poster that that particular idea doesn't get received particularly well in this neck of the woods. That was my issue, and I think it's been addressed (and even modded, so I'm good here.)

In conclusion, padded armor for everyone, and play on!