Just how easily does adamantine slice?

[Belbarrus]

Here is something that I am having a problem with as a DM: Adamantinue weapons. The books indicate that when used to sunder a weapon or object, adamanatine weapons ignore hardness less than 20.

Half a foot of stone has a hardness of 8 and 90 hit points. Half a foot of iron has a hardness of 10 and 180 hit points. If someone with +4 Strength bonus and an adamantine greatsword "attacks" a wall of stone, they do, on average 16 points per attack (2d6+9, ignoring Hardness). Which means that within 5-6 rounds, they can "carve" through a wall of stone, or 10-12 rounds to get through a wall of iron.

Am I missing something?

If the party has an adamantine weapon, there is no way to keep them out of anything or trap them. Cage with iron bars? Swipe, swipe, bars are gone. Iron door with an insanely crafted lock (DC 50 to open lock)? Swipe, swipe, swipe, bye bye door, or even, whack , whack, bye bye stone wall around the door. With an adamantine weapon, the party can just slice, dice and chop their way through a dungeon? Heedless of walls, doors, floors? Is this right?


B

 

[James McMurray]

You are correct in that stone and iron are easy to chop through (especially with Power Attack). However, there are ways.

Magically Hardned Walls Double their hardness. Not sure offhand what the price is, but its in the DMG. A Magically hardened iron wall has a hardness of 20, and is no longer bypassed by adamantium.

Obdurium (stronghold builder's guidebook) has a base hardness of 30 and 60 hit points per inch.

The Hardening spell from MoF increases a material's hardness by (IIRC) 1/2 caster levels.

Disarm + the Run feat can get rid of that pesky sword.

Also, if the dungeon is a place where enemies live (or unlive as the case may be) then all that clanging and slamming is going to raise quite a bit of an alarm. The dungeon denizens can either amass an assault on the source of the noise, or lie in ambush and await their foes' approach once the redecoration process is complete.

 

[andargor]

A Magically hardened iron wall has a hardness of 20, and is no longer bypassed by adamantium.

Adamantium. Hee hee. X-Men fan?

Andargor

 

[James McMurray]

Nah, I just like to annoy the adamantine spelling nazis.

 

[Shin Okada]

A wall of force cannot be smashed even by an adamantine axe.

 

[Majere]

I believe the stated hardness and HP are per 5' square, so to cut out a decent hole to get your full plated fighter dude through will take a while.
Other disadvantages include it being noisy, and slow.
Its liable to undermine ceilings and walls possibly causing the room to collapse.
If the cage is small enough you can rule there isnt enough room to swing the sword.
It will set off any traps.
It denies the PC's the chance to close the door behind them
It denies the PC's any chance of a clean exit if they are trying to be sneaky beaky.
Its nothing a knock/stoneshape cant do in less time. (And if your about to say spell slots I say WAND OF KNOCK Which is a might fine item in so many situations)

Also you could :
Give the wall/door damage reduction X/magic
Make it out of a special material with hardness 20.
Make the player roll the attack like a sunder, on a natural 1 they roll damage as normal and the weapon takes the damage instead of the wall (allow criticals on a 20 to balance this out, they may hit a sheer in the material). Most people wont risk loosing a nice shiney sword just because the rogue is sitting on his ass
Give the wall more hps, say double the hps if you want to make a hole to get through rather than just smash it up a bit.
Only allow weapons to ignore hardness for the purpose of sundering other weapons or wooden doors.
Only allow axes and bludgeons (maces flails battering rams etc) to sunder walls and/or doors. Swords just arent made for the job and will more than likely shatter their blades long before they shatter 6" of stone.

Increase the hardness by 50% for each extra inch of thickness- Thuse a foot of stone would have a hardness of (8+4+4+4+4+4)= 28, This is also a more realistic representation of how mechanical strength varies with thickness.
-> In real life most people could shatter a 1" paving slab with a single sledge-hammer blow, that doesnt mean they could shatter a 6" thick sheet in six blows, they would probably bounce off it all day. 3E doesnt really represent the effect of thickness in a good manner.

Of all the rubbish I just typed, the last one is my prefered answer.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Disarm + the Run feat can get rid of that pesky sword.

Don't forget the verbal component

Nah, I just like to annoy the adamantine spelling nazis.

Rrrr.

-Hyp.

 

[Kilamar]

It is just one badly designed rule. The designers must have been drunk and this rule will not survive the next revision.

Kilamar

 

[Pax]

Half a foot of stone has a hardness of 8 and 90 hit points. Half a foot of iron has a hardness of 10 and 180 hit points. If someone with +4 Strength bonus and an adamantine greatsword "attacks" a wall of stone, they do, on average 16 points per attack (2d6+9, ignoring Hardness). Which means that within 5-6 rounds, they can "carve" through a wall of stone, or 10-12 rounds to get through a wall of iron.

Am I missing something?

Nope. Figure that most prosperous Dwarven mining communities probably spring for Adamantine minign tools. ^_^

One thing to consider: that will only breach a single 5x5 area of the wall. To make a true "door-sized hole", would take twice as long - they'd have to breach TWO such areas, one atop the other. If they want to ride a HORSE through it, it jumps to THREE (if they want the horse to have to squeeze), or SIX (if not).

And that's for only a half-foot thick wall. Other than interior walls in economically-lesser buildings (i.e., NOT the Royal Vault!), 6" is a VERY thin wall by medieval standards. Assuming stone construction, foot-thick courses of stone would be more likely for anything over one story high ... plus maybe 6" for every additional story above the wall in question.

If the party has an adamantine weapon, there is no way to keep them out of anything or trap them. Cage with iron bars? Swipe, swipe, bars are gone.

1,300gp ... HArdening. DLCS pegs it as a 6th level spell, with 100gp of material components. Adds half the caster level to the target object's hardness ... with a duration of instantaneous, so there's no dispelling the effect, either. Hardening at Caster LEvel 20 is worth +10 hardness. I assume it doesn't stack with itself, of course. But a properly-Hardened Iron Cage would be hardness 20, and no more "hot knife through butter" effect.

Iron door with an insanely crafted lock (DC 50 to open lock)? Swipe, swipe, swipe, bye bye door, or even, whack , whack, bye bye stone wall around the door.

Again, hardening on the door. Or better, if you're spending THAT kind of money on the lock -- get an adamantine door! And THEN ... pop it with a Hardening spell! Hardness 30, boys ... read 'em and weep!

As for going through the wall -- in the real world, that is often a mistake made by building designers and security planners. People DO often over-protect the door, while neglacting the wall around that door.

Still, driving adamantine rods 5-10 feet into the wall, and mounting the adamantine doorframe and adamantine door directly to those rods, solves THAT problem. *hack, slice, CLANG ...* ... "Uh, guys, the're bar in this wall that I can't cut through" ...

Heh.

With an adamantine weapon, the party can just slice, dice and chop their way through a dungeon? Heedless of walls, doors, floors? Is this right?

That's oneof hte reasons I always plan my maps in 3D. IF you lop out too many walls and other supports, the floor above is QUITE likely to come down on your head! OR, possibly worse, when you get TO that floor, it's likely to fall out from under your feet, and bring down the floor(s) above, onto your head ANYway.

And as has already been noted, there IS always the noise factor.

Personally, IMC, I plan on having Adamantine ignore half of an object's hardness, for items of up to hardness 20 - and subtract 10 hardness, for items of hardness 21+. LEss useful against those walls and doors, a bit more useful when you just HAVE to smash the BBEG's adamantine sword ...

 

[Saeviomagy]

It is just one badly designed rule. The designers must have been drunk and this rule will not survive the next revision.

Kilamar

Yeah, 'cause I know for a fact that bashing through stone walls is the best way to do anything in a dungeon.

Are you the same sort of person that complains that a rogue can take 20 on search?