D&D 5E 'Justice' in 5E

[Oofta]

Prison. You build a cell. You place them in it.

Works just fine in the world through history.

Actually it was extremely rare until fairly recently historically [1] unless the person being imprisoned could pay for it. Also assumes the prisoner (or an ally) can't just use magic to get out.

You don't have to do that in your make-believe world of course.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Before prisons were a cost-effective way to deal with offenders, exile was actually more common than the death penalty. It was especially if there was some place you could offload your criminals, like America or Australia. Despite being apparently harsher, british legal code in the 18th century caused less death penalty than the preceding one, but many deportations.

Exile would be very fitting, especially since D&D worlds have many gradual exile a real possibilty. You're a regular murderer? Go to some place the king wants to colonize. You are really the worst kind of offender with tremendous power? Get planeshifted with varied degrees of hardship (it's arguably better to be planeshifted to the forgotten realm than to Krynn than to Dark Sun than an elemental plane...) youu're really the worse one, a BBEG of tremendous ability to come back? Get Imprisoned. No death penalty, everyone is happy, and we get a good explanation for villains popping up everywhere along the sword coast, it's just a society with a death penalty taboo meteing out justic ;-)

TBH, there is so much discrepancy in individual power that I think a level 20 spellcaster would instead have his death sentence communted into community service. "You, you can be hanged or quartered. Or you could go to some-place-we're-at-war with and just be you."

 

[Flamestrike]

Which is what I meant by taking responsibility. Is there a prison in the world which can reliably hold an extremely powerful D&D end-boss?

Yes. Heaps of them.

Athkatla off the coast of Amn. The cells in the new Frostmaiden adventure. Just off the top of my head. Also demiplanes, Hallowed areas etc etc etc.

Presuming powerful enemies, we also presume powerful countermeasures.

Superhero worlds also have supervillian prisons.

You said that mercy is good and killing is evil - and by the RAW it's relatively easy to take someone down non-lethally. If you have that option and don't exercise it, isn't that evil by your own definition?

I dont care about 'RAW'. The PCs in the game dont know about RAW. From their perspective, its harder to subdue someone that kill them (its impossible with ranged weapons, spells etc in any event). If they draw a sword on you or an ally or a defenceless person and try and kill you, you are entitled to respond with proportionate lethal force.

Its not evil to do so, nor is it a crime.

If they surrender, then you cant just slit their throat and be done with it.

I mean you can murder them, but it's clearly (and unambiguously) evil.

Id slap you with a Dark Side Point if you did it in Star Wars RPG as well.


Peter Griffin there just earnt a few DSP's.

 

[NotAYakk]

TBH, there is so much discrepancy in individual power that I think a level 20 spellcaster would instead have his death sentence communted into community service. "You, you can be hanged or quartered. Or you could go to some-place-we're-at-war with and just be you."

Yes, something that would send a peasant to death might be commuted to "royal service" for that 20th level character, or even not punished at all. A kind of Parole, where the 20th level character would suffer worse punishments if they continued to transgress.

Of course, a sufficiently harsh punishment for a sufficiently strong person which isn't final is a bad plan. Letting a 20th level person with a serious grudge on the King loose is a great way to have one less Kingdom.

Eventually the intersection of "what level of crime do we just ignore", "what level of crime we punish with parole+service" and "what level of crime do we exile of execute for" occurs; you can't afford to have a non-loyal 20th level person alive, so you just eliminate them.

 

[Flamestrike]

you can't afford to have a non-loyal 20th level person alive, so you just eliminate them.

''Kill him now.... He's too dangerous to be kept alive.''

Now where have I heard that particular brand of 'Good' before?



Oh that's right. From the LG Sheev Palpatine.

 

[Oofta]

''Kill him now.... He's too dangerous to be kept alive.''

Now where have I heard that particular brand of 'Good' before?



Oh that's right. From the LG Sheev Palpatine.

So letting someone go that you can guarantee will indiscriminately murder innocents the first chance they get is a good act?

In any case, you seem to be the only one arguing that. I'll stand by my ruling when I DM.

 

[jgsugden]

Alignment is not a box. It does not constrain. It is a tool. It generalizes with blurry, fuzzy lines.

Figure out what you've established for the NPC. Then tell a good story that further develops the NPC and creates an interesting story.

A LG cleric of Ilmater that knows his God would want mercy for the BBEG and a fair trial - but lets the Night Hag take the soul to Hades because the BBEG really, really hurt them... that is a story beat we've all seen over and over and over. It is pretty much a cliché.

Keep track of what you've established, and develop the story in a fun way within the constraints of your established world.

 

[Flamestrike]

So letting someone go that you can guarantee will indiscriminately murder innocents the first chance they get is a good act?

How can you guarantee that?

In any case, you seem to be the only one arguing that. I'll stand by my ruling when I DM.

Err no.

Its accepted in the real world. Cops generally dont just shoot you dead after you surrender no matter how despicable your actions.

It seems as if you would excuse them for simply murdering the suspect then and there. Its convenient and he deserves to die after all.

Is there a reason why Cops dont just blow people away in those circumstances, or why we dont slaughter every man woman and child we wage war on, and gas POW's etc?

 

[Flamestrike]

A LG cleric of Ilmater that knows his God would want mercy for the BBEG and a fair trial - but lets the Night Hag take the soul to Hades because the BBEG really, really hurt them... that is a story beat we've all seen over and over and over. It is pretty much a cliché.

And then wakes up unable to cast spells anymore.

 

[Oofta]

How can you guarantee that?

Err no.

Its accepted in the real world. Cops generally dont just shoot you dead after you surrender no matter how despicable your actions.

It seems as if you would excuse them for simply murdering the suspect then and there. Its convenient and he deserves to die after all.

Is there a reason why Cops dont just blow people away in those circumstances, or why we dont slaughter every man woman and child we wage war on, and gas POW's etc?

We have an established justice system and secure prisons. We do not have people that can teleport. I don't assume that 21st century 1st world morality applies to the pseudo-medieval setting of D&D.

Anyway do it however you want, I've stated my opinion and ruling. Have a good one.