D&D General Kara-Tur vs Rokugan
First: The Associated Press Style Guide lists the term as "do not use". The Webster's New World College Dictionary says the term is, "now often regarded as a term of disparagement.” So, he's not wrong. In the US, the term is often considered offensive.
Second: If you think someone's actually making trouble, report it. Please do not try to junior-mod in the future - since you don't have the authority to back it up, this becomes an ego match, and that rarely ends well for anyone.
Azzy
ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
I'd go with Mei Lung--the chonicler named in the original boxed set.
Desdichado
Hero
Folks, burdening a discussion thread with arguing with moderation is not constructive. Don't do it.
I know it might seem inconceivable to you, but asking someone to stop race-baiting can be done without wanting to "junior-mod". It's called "basic social skills" to be able to talk to someone without having to run to Mommy to tell her to deal with everything we don't like.
And no; the AP style guide and Websters are both wrong. They are at best two, three or four places removed from the actual discussion,, but I remember first-hand watching Edward Said come up with the idea that "Orientalism" was offensive out of thin air. It is nothing more than cultural vandalism and demagoguery, and nobody ever really took that seriously; it was a fringe idea far outside the mainstream of cultural anthropology and cultural studies. And for that matter, it didn't have anything to do with the subject matter of Oriental Adventures: Edward Said was a Palestinian, and he used the word "oriental" to refer to the Middle East, not the Far East.
As historian Dr. Nikki Keddie (UCLA) said: "I think that there has been a tendency in the Middle East [studies] field to adopt the word "Orientalism" as a generalized swear-word, essentially referring to people who take the "wrong" position on the Arab–Israeli dispute, or to people who are judged "too conservative". It has nothing to do with whether they are good or not good in their disciplines. So, "Orientalism", for many people, is a word that substitutes for thought, and enables people to dismiss certain scholars and their works. I think that is too bad. It may not have been what Edward Saïd meant, at all, but the term has become a kind of slogan."
She's being too nice and giving Said benefit of the doubt that he clearly has not earned, and in fact has eroded through his book Orientalism. He absolutely did mean that, and it's very clear that that's what he meant. The entire discussion about "is Oriental racist" is based on race-baiting and false pretenses. It was dishonest rhetoric from the get-go.
And no; the AP style guide and Websters are both wrong. They are at best two, three or four places removed from the actual discussion,, but I remember first-hand watching Edward Said come up with the idea that "Orientalism" was offensive out of thin air. It is nothing more than cultural vandalism and demagoguery, and nobody ever really took that seriously; it was a fringe idea far outside the mainstream of cultural anthropology and cultural studies. And for that matter, it didn't have anything to do with the subject matter of Oriental Adventures: Edward Said was a Palestinian, and he used the word "oriental" to refer to the Middle East, not the Far East.
As historian Dr. Nikki Keddie (UCLA) said: "I think that there has been a tendency in the Middle East [studies] field to adopt the word "Orientalism" as a generalized swear-word, essentially referring to people who take the "wrong" position on the Arab–Israeli dispute, or to people who are judged "too conservative". It has nothing to do with whether they are good or not good in their disciplines. So, "Orientalism", for many people, is a word that substitutes for thought, and enables people to dismiss certain scholars and their works. I think that is too bad. It may not have been what Edward Saïd meant, at all, but the term has become a kind of slogan."
She's being too nice and giving Said benefit of the doubt that he clearly has not earned, and in fact has eroded through his book Orientalism. He absolutely did mean that, and it's very clear that that's what he meant. The entire discussion about "is Oriental racist" is based on race-baiting and false pretenses. It was dishonest rhetoric from the get-go.
Wow very informed and interesting, do have like a history degree or just a keen interest?
For me I'm FR fan and it's a region in vital need of updating as much has happened since 2e.
I still think we are getting a Kara Tur book. Maybe called Adventures Guide to Kara Tur.
Aldarc
Legend
A history degree, keen interest, or was it simply looking up the Wikipedia article on Edward Said, which features this quote as part of criticisms of his work Orientalism?
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