Keen bows

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

To make things even more confusing, it's the launching mechanism that's considered piercing, not the ammunition itself! Take a look at the tables!

Uh...that's what I said.

I see no reason you can't have keen arrows.

That's just it though. Nothing says you can't have keen arrows. The question is whether or not you can have a keen bow.

Since you can cast Keen Edges on ammunition, I don't see why a magic item couldn't automate the process somewhat.

Actually, this is where it gets funny. The keen edge spell can be cast on any slashing or piercing weapon. A bow is a piercing weapon. So, keen edge can be cast upon a bow. Now, the real question is whether or not a bow with keen edge on it passes the effect to the arrows.

 

[Vurt]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

Uh...that's what I said.

Sorry. Takes me a few to write these things. My brain can't process incoming and outgoing ideas at the same time, but there you go.

That's just it though. Nothing says you can't have keen arrows. The question is whether or not you can have a keen bow.

I thought this was implied by the fact that arrows don't have a type descriptor listed alongside of them in the equipment tables, only a price and a weight! Type: -- (Now does the slash mean slashing?...) OK, silly mode back off.

Actually, this is where it gets funny. The keen edge spell can be cast on any slashing or piercing weapon. A bow is a piercing weapon. So, keen edge can be cast upon a bow. Now, the real question is whether or not a bow with keen edge on it passes the effect to the arrows.

Well, if the answer is yes then you should be able to modify your bow to fire slingstones and keen them, thereby getting around the blunt restriction, wouldn't you?!?

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

I thought this was implied by the fact that arrows don't have a type descriptor listed alongside of them in the equipment tables, only a price and a weight!

Actually, arrows do have a type descriptor. From the PH, page 99...

"Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is Tiny and deals 1d4
points of piercing damage (x2 crit). Since it is not designed for this
use, all characters are treated as not proficient with it and thus suffer
a –4 penalty on their attack rolls. Arrows come in leather quivers
that hold 20 arrows. An arrow that hits its target is destroyed; one
that misses has a 50% chance to be destroyed or lost."

Well, if the answer is yes then you should be able to modify your bow to fire slingstones and keen them, thereby getting around the blunt restriction, wouldn't you?!?

No. Bows do not fire slingstones.

 

[Vurt]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

No. Bows do not fire slingstones.

Well, what about arrows with heavy, blunt heads? ie. arrow shafts with slingstones tied to the end of them.

See, I could see a flaming bow still imbue one of these suckers just fine, but a keen bow? Maybe it's questions like these that got the designers to simply remove the keen entry for possible missile weapon enhancements in frustration.

OK, I've wasted far too much time thinking about this...

Cheers,
Vurt

Edit: Hopefully 3re will put a little (P) next to the arrow entry but I'm not counting on it!

 

[kengar]

I think you can "explain away" the Keen effect on arrows via the bow suffuciently just by saying "It's magic! Duh! " but the follow-up question would be (I guess) ; Is there some reason -for things like game balance- that you shouldn't let people enhance a bow (or crossbow, etc.) with Keen and let it imbue the ammo with the effect?

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

Well, what about arrows with heavy, blunt heads? ie. arrow shafts with slingstones tied to the end of them.

The Arms & Equipment Guide has Blunt Arrows that deal subdual bludgeoning damage. Kinda cool. Close enough?

See, I could see a flaming bow still imbue one of these suckers just fine, but a keen bow?

Doubt it.

Maybe it's questions like these that got the designers to simply remove the entry for missile weapons in frustration.

OK, I've wasted far too much time thinking about this...

Actually, you made a good point. Perhaps this is indeed all due to frustration.

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

Play a deepwood sniper. Problem solved.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Keen bow? Not if you want to keep all your fingers....

You could play a deepwood sniper (as has been pointed out), though that's not for everyone.

You could get an elven greatbow, but that's about 3.000.000 gm (out of the ELH).

Or you could create your own specific magical weapon that fires keen arrows, but with a more affordable price. You'd only have the problem of figuring out the cost that special ability would have (the elven greatbow costs around 500.000 above the price of a +11 epic weapon, but has two unique features: the keen stuff and a variable pull that makes it as mighty as you need it.)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm going to invoke dcollins and point out that you can't give ammunition the Keen quality, because it's not on the Ranged table.

Having said that, you can give an arrow the Keen quality, because an arrow can be an improvised melee Piercing weapon. However, an arrow as a melee weapon is a single item, not a bundle of 50, so making a lot of Keen arrows would, by dcollins' Law, become very expensive.

-Hyp.

 

[Caliban]

I've seen a bow that casts keen edge on any arrows fired from it. It priced out to about +30,000 gp as a use activated 3rd level spell effect.