Keen bows

[kengar]

I know this was mentioned a while ago on the boards and I don't want to start a whole argument, but is it fair to say that if an archer wants to have the Keen enhancement to their ranged attack, they have to enchant their arrows instead of their bow? Or can the magic bow transfer the Keen to the ammo?

 

[Bauglir]

By the rules, the effect can come from either, and stack with either. The only effect that MUST come from the ammunition is DR penetration.

 

[kengar]

By the rules, the effect can come from either, and stack with either. The only effect that MUST come from the ammunition is DR penetration.

Right, but ...

...in the DMG, there is no "Keen" on the ranged weapon effects table. Only for melee. I know they errata-ed Keen so it included piercing as well as slashing weapons, but the issue of ranged weapons is still a little ambiguous as far as I can tell.

 

[Vurt]

If a flaming longbow can transfer the flame to the arrow, I don't see why a keen longbow wouldn't do the same.

On the other hand, checking out the SRD, it seems that Keen is not a property listed on the Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table. So strictly speaking, this is probably not allowed.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[kengar]

On the other hand, checking out the SRD, it seems that Keen is not a property listed on the Ranged Weapon Special Abilities table. So strictly speaking, this is probably not allowed.

Yeah, what I can't figure out is whether it was left off because originally, Keen was slashing only or because they thought ranged weapons shouldn't have it.

 

[kreynolds]

...is it fair to say that if an archer wants to have the Keen enhancement to their ranged attack, they have to enchant their arrows instead of their bow?

The keen edge spell doesn't say that you can't put it on a bow, so from a rules standpoint, there's little saying that you can't. Also, according to the weapons table in the PH, a bow is a piercing weapon. With that said, based on the lack of an entry for keen on the ranged weapons table in the DMG, the intent could be that it can only be placed upon ammunition.

EDIT: Damn. That's what I get for typing, walking away, then posting before looking at any new posts.

 

[Spatzimaus]

Here's the logic that came up last time we discussed this.

Most bow enchantments say "A projectile weapon with this enchantment bestows it on the ammunition" or whatever the phrase is.

Since, AFAIK Keen doesn't have that phrase, it wouldn't transfer the enchantment. The default is to NOT transfer, and it's overridden in specific cases by that phrase.

Therefore, Keen isn't possible to put on a Bow, since the bow itself isn't a Slashing or Piercing weapon, and it has no way of transferring the enchantment to something that is.

 

[Vurt]

Re: Re: Keen bows

Also, according to the weapons table in the PH, a bow is a piercing weapon. With that said, based on the lack of an entry for keen on the ranged weapons table in the DMG, the intent could be that it can only be placed upon ammunition.

To make things even more confusing, it's the launching mechanism that's considered piercing, not the ammunition itself! Take a look at the tables! Silly, but there you go.

I see no reason you can't have keen arrows. It's not like their threat range becomes insane or anything. Since you can cast Keen Edges on ammunition, I don't see why a magic item couldn't automate the process somewhat.

Personally, to make things a little more consistent in flavour, I wouldn't so much make a bow that imbues its arrows with keening as make a quiver that does something similar to a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

Cheers,
Vurt

 

[kengar]

Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

Personally, to make things a little more consistent in flavour, I wouldn't so much make a bow that imbues its arrows with keening as make a quiver that does something similar to a Scabbard of Keen Edges.

Ooooo! I LIKE that!

 

[Vurt]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Keen bows

Ooooo! I LIKE that!

The image of dozens of little faeries tirelessly slaving away at the bottom a quiver to make all the arrows sharper is just too good to pass up!

Cheers,
Vurt