Keen stacking

[Stalker0]

I think preety much everyone agrees that the designers intended the two not to stack. I don't know if there's much left to argue; I think we should let this topic rest.

 

[phadian]

More Keen Abuse

While I play a wizard in our campaign, my cohort is a Ranger/Fighter who uses two Keen Bladed Gauntlets (from the Sword and Fist). With Improved Critical, he criticals on any hits of 9+. Not necessarily a part of the stacking argument currently here, but I think it beats the hell out of rapiers and scimitars.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

You're not talking, perchance, about the same bladed gauntlets that have been errata'ed to have only 19-20 crit range, not 17-20?

 

[Kibo]

Considering I'm obviously right, your post doesn't make much sense.

Really? Then why switch to latin phrases which is a move that can only serve weaken your position? It's not arguing anything from a position of fact, it's arguing from a position of "Look I took philosophy 101 at a community college. I'll stun you with other revelations like sick pigs and children are equivalent!"

Hey, if you'd rather appear pedantic than erudite, your choice. (Personally, I prefer people who shoot for the former, they're more ammusing. And I like doing my little infobaun happy dance as I look down on them.)

You can skip the IKYABWAI, I'm well aware that on the basis of spelling alone I'm precluded from appearing as the later.

But hey, since you've taken such offense at my previous post. You might want to note that my assertions about the people who used "the latin phrase which shall never be mentioned directly" applied to typical individuals given to such indiscretions. What do you know, appearently we both agree. You're right, you are typical.

 

[Metalsmith]

In before the Lock!

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Two simple points.

First, I think Chill Metal would work on an Icey Burst blade. All the elemental weapons state that their effect does not harm the weilder. Since this spell causes the entire blade to become cold, including the normally room tempreture handle, it should work. The only thing I think could use some clairification would be if the elemental enhancement offers the weapon any protection. As it stands, you can melt Flame Tounge. Perhaps the blade is simply sheathed in a fire that touches nothing, but this is neither here nor there.

Second and most important, how can any errata, no matter how updated, handle this constant steam of interpetations? As soon as you cannot even tell what a "bonus" is, it's time to stop playing. Unless you want to have every description state how it interacts with everything else. I'm sure it would be worth tripling the size of every book to have the description of every elemental protection spell state that it does not stack with every other protection spell. Or to have the Haste spell state that it does not stack with weapons of Speed and the Bull's Strength spell state that it does not stack with Gauntlets Of Ogre Power. The OGL is enough legal jargon for me, thank you.

Just out of morbid curiosity, I'll bite. I think the Fireball spell DOES cause damage.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I think the Fireball spell DOES cause damage.

In this, you're terribly wrong! The fireball spell is one of the most misunderstood and abused spells out there. Concepted originally to warm the hands of the gods (for whom it is a gentle warmth, due to their resistances and immunities), it was stolen by careless mortals who found out that they can blow things up with it. So the fireball spell does not cause any damage. It's those careless bastards that cause it. Don't blame the blade, blame the wielder!

(It was said that the greatest thief ever stole the fire from the gods. That is true. But he couldn't fence it. It was to hot. He really burned his fingers on this coup!)

 

[Dinkeldog]

Hey all. Just making things don't get to toasty warm in here.

 

[Oni]

Here is the email I wrote to WotC customer service and their reply (I also sent the same email to the Sage and will post the response if it is forthcoming).




Very simply, if you have a weapon with the keen enchantment and Keen edge is cast on the weapon does the weapon benefit from both or just one. That is to say If I have a keen scimitar and Keen Edge cast on it, is the crit threat 15-20/x2 or 12-20/x2? Basically, is the bonus from the keen enchantment the same as the bonus from Keen Edge or just similar (similar in they way that the Str bonus from Enlarge and Bull Strength are similar)?

--You cannot have a doubly Keen weapon.

 

[Kraedin]

I think the Fireball spell DOES cause damage.

Warning: This is even more silly than the rest of this thread.

deal damage: Cause damage to a target with a successful attack. How much damage is dealt is usually expressed in terms of dice and may have a situational modifier as well. However, damage dealt by a weapon or spell does not necessarily equal damage taken by the target, because the target may have special defenses that negate some or all of the damage.

attack: Any of numerous actions intended to harm, disable, or neutralize an opponents. The result of an attack is determined by an attack roll.

attack roll: A roll to determine whether an attack hits. To make an attack roll, roll d20 and add the appropriate modifiers for the attack type, as follows: melee attack roll = 1d20 + base attack bonus + Strength modifier + size modfier; ranged attack roll = 1d20 + base attack bonus + Dexterity modifier + size modifier + range penalty. In either case, the attack hits if the result is at least as high as the target's Armor Class.

Does fireball have an attack roll? No, therefore, it is not an attack. Because only attacks deal damage, a fireball cannot deal damage. Ta da!