Keep your filthy points of light away from me!

Kae'Yoss said:
The problem is that they seem hell-bent on changing the Realms so that it conforms to everything 4e is doing and introducing:

The 4e standard cosmology changes, and the Realms' cosmology changes (with its own RBE "explaining" that change) so it's just like the 4e standard cosmology.

4e is apparently all about "Points of Light" so the Realms need big catastrophy and many cities destroyed so the Realms scream POINTS OF LIGHT.

4e magic works differently, and they kill off deities to explain why Realms Magic now works differently (which also means that you couldn't play "historical" campaigns properly with 4e rules, since they would play in a time when wizards didn't have arcane strikes).

I'm sure 4e rules changes aren't the only thing behind this. Killing off Mystra is a (misguidedly?) popular move. Advancing the timeline makes introducing competent villains possible.

The only change I've seen that can really fall under PoL are the cosmology changes, and maybe an element of the catastrophes striking FR.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I'm definitely one of those skeptical of 4E in general. I see alot (that we have seen so far) that I'm not really thrilled about. The "dismantling" of The Realms being one. But FR is much bigger than some DnD RPG books these days...it's video games, and computer games, and a huge novel line...and WOTC knows where the bread is buttered.

On to my point (no pun intended)

The whole "Points of Light" is one of the few "themes" so far that I actually LIKE about 4E.

Conan's Hyboria

Middle Earth

Glorantha

The Young Kingdoms

Tekumel

The Wilderlands

even 576 CY GH and OGB Realms to a certain extent

These are all great settings that more less are modeled on the POL philosophy. I'm glad to see this "new direction"" ..though I sympathize with the harcore FR fans.
 

Guild Goodknife said:
First, the FR have always been Points of Lightish.

I know. Tell it to WotC who think they need crumbling empires left and right. It seems they want to make it perfectly clear that the Realms are totally Point of Light.

Second, as others have already pointed out, RSE have been used in the past to explain rules changes.

Since we're pointing out: The biggest of those (so far) was the Time of Troubles, something that was hated by a great many players.

Heck, i prefer them over massive changes for which we didn't get any explanation (Sorcerers, demihumanoid paladins, monks, etc.)

I think that rules and their changes need not - and should not - intrude upon the setting to that degree.
 

howandwhy99 said:
So, the current 3e Forgotten Realms will be more than playable under the 4e rules.

But it will no longer be supported. One of the things I liked about will no longer be true for the Realms I play in - lots of information about current events in the setting. And since the changes are so vast, I couldn't even use the 4e books for much even if I wanted to use them, since they describe how things are in the 4e Realms (including all the big changes to force 4e's mechanics and philosophies upon the Realms) and the lands as they will be in those Realms.
 

This is a big non-issue for me. No matter what overarching theme, if any, gets designed into 4e. As soon as my group gets their hands on it we'll turn it into the game we want to play, utilizing and/or discarding material as we see fit, just like every group I've gamed with since 1e has done.

I'm going to keep running my current homebrew setting of CITY when 4e hits, so it'll be an urbane urban campaign of bizarre adventures, PoL be damned. And if we like some of the PoL material, all the better, we'll incorporate the good stuff and move on, just a little richer.
 

Kae'Yoss said:
I know. Tell it to WotC who think they need crumbling empires left and right. It seems they want to make it perfectly clear that the Realms are totally Point of Light.

There's nothing but the flimsiest evidence that points to this happening.

Since we're pointing out: The biggest of those (so far) was the Time of Troubles, something that was hated by a great many players.

And a great many players hated the, "it was always like this; you just didn't notice," retcon from 2nd to 3rd edition. Neither option is going to make everyone happy.

I think that rules and their changes need not - and should not - intrude upon the setting to that degree.

I don't mind as long as it leads to an equally or even more exciting setting. While Dragonlance did this and failed miserably, Shadowrun has proven time and time again that it can be done quite well.

But it will no longer be supported. One of the things I liked about will no longer be true for the Realms I play in - lots of information about current events in the setting. And since the changes are so vast, I couldn't even use the 4e books for much even if I wanted to use them, since they describe how things are in the 4e Realms (including all the big changes to force 4e's mechanics and philosophies upon the Realms) and the lands as they will be in those Realms.

This is a valid complaint, but I feel the worry your basing this on is mostly unfounded.

Basically, I don't think the Realms are going to change nearly as much as you do. I think there will be a few notable deaths, some juggling amongst the deities, and a few significant political changes here and there, but nothing of the scope that will alter the basic premises of the Realms. I think the sum total of the changes will feel like trimming the fat/rolling back the clock. I expect the new Realms is attempting to hearken back to the OGB 1356 DR era.
 

Wormwood said:
Before you abandon tabletop play *entirely*, you way want to consider a couple of factors:

1. Don;t switch to 4e. Keep on doing what you are doing now!
2. There are still groups that play older versions of D&D---and there always will be. Find them or start such a group yourself.
3. The hobby is teeming with roleplaying games of every stripe---there is bound to be one suited to your tastes! I'm sure there are people on this very board who could help you find the perfect game for you. Hell, I'd love to help!
4. Finally, you could wait and see what 4e is actually like before you chuck your dice in the bin. 4e could rock on toast or stink on ice, but nobody will know that until it's released. And if it's the digital initiative that bothers you, my suggestion would be to ignore it.

I have considered many options over the years, going through changes from 1st ed. Yet it seems that everything we (the DMs and Players) want is largely ignored until WotC find a way to charge us double or sell us 2 books instead of one.

No I understand that business is business and you need to make a profit (I run my own), so this is not my gripe. I am sick of the double dealing and giving us a smaller product in pieces instead of just buying the Core books so we can play the game.

In my personal experience, Neverwinter Nights was the best thing to happen to the game when it was made and released by Bioware. Yet this is where my joy ended, once Atari became publisher and then the fate of the game sealed into Oblivion (the location not the rival product ;) ) by Obsidian and their pathetic attempt of a sequal. I used to have a group of 300 people in Australia playing 24/7 across 3 timezones, yet these players and builders have also stuck with nwn1 due the "sold out" feeling they were left with by these two companies.

So all in all I feel that WotC have got into a room with these two companies for their money without regard to us the fans and people who keep them in business. Digital is the way to go, yet you need to keep in mind that people still like to play PnP. They have closed the door on that hapening by stealing the good ideas from the people who have tried to push this game into this new realm. ie., there is a lot of good ideas out there and many products to help keep the game going, yet when we try to make our own Campaign in the digital field, we are shut out by inferer products or restricted to how we can use the system.

They HAVE forgotten how or why we play.

I'm just saying there may yet be hope yet, and I'd hate for the RPG hobby to lose a member as passionate as you obviously are over something as trivial as a new edition of D&D.

Hope is something that has come and gone many times for me in the role playing genre. My first encounter with something that looked like we could move to computer based gaming was way back inthe days of Dungeon Master and The Bard's Tale, seeing these I thought hmmm., maybe we could see this game grow into something that could be enhanced by computers, yet years later I still see that the digital reality is a thing that D&D fears.

So unless we see a come back of Moddable gaming in the hand of the people who play them, pen and paper gaming being enhanced by the digital realm and a hibred of PnP experiences without restriction (ie. we need to see more open source in my honest opinion, Linux, Mac, Console alongside the PC).

Looking at how they are setting up the 4e system, you need to be plugged into the internet 24/7 just to play. Well at work I have a daily grind of trying to get our willing customers money to pay for their product because of a fight between the phone lines and the banks' inadequate database servers. The irony here is that I see the same problem occuring for the 4e model. Without a reliable source and internet connection how can one play the game.

Sure, it looks good on the surface, but too much of the information stems towards us being dictated to on how and what we use under their digital system. All I have seen so far is a very basic system that has more going against it than for it.

WotC need to put the game back into the hands of the players and DM's who build worlds and keep this game moving forward, so unless we see a boom in Open Source options, there is only a very limited scope for enhancing their 4e tool.

To put it even more bluntly, I see their system going back to the days before miniatures, before the rules where refined and many many books to get all the relavent material to play, and all due to the reliance of a Windows based PC (and yes I have a very expensive PC with all the latest stuff, minus VISTA BS OS) yet all of this is beaten by going back to the 3e model, armed with a Pen and piece if paper.

And they say this is progress, sheesh, grow up WotC, smell the roses, and GET WITH IT.

WE THE PEOPLE , yeah right, that'll be the day.......
 

Shealladh said:
Looking at how they are setting up the 4e system, you need to be plugged into the internet 24/7 just to play.

All the information so far indicates exactly the opposite. You'll only need the PHB, DMG, and MM to play. Which is the same as now.
 

The reason I don't really care if 4th edition changes all the "fluff" of D&D is because mechanics don't dictate setting.

^

I remember back when I swore that when the things I loved were being changed a lot, I would never accept the new object of my affection. That was way back, like yesterday. Now I like change. 4e for me!
 

Fobok said:
All the information so far indicates exactly the opposite. You'll only need the PHB, DMG, and MM to play. Which is the same as now.

Well if you read all the information and listen to the WotC interviews, you can basically.

Now basically meaning that if you want all the content and features you MUST have an internet connection. You cannot play via LAN as far as I know, so what is the point of this system if you must have a cable hanging out the back of your book???

What they're doing is forcing you to connect and waste tons of paper in printing everything out again until it becomes available in a book. They should be looking at other techniques to allow for an update via the internet, yet allow for us to play WITH ALL the information.

Furthermore, how does one need an internet connection to use their online part, beats me and is useless. As it stands we can already do what they are updating for 4e anyway, you just have to scan and edit all the friggin books. So how is this moving forward, I would like you to answer that one. Yes good changes are always welcome, but this is a sorry excuse to DICTATE how all our information is used.

I bet you the first person to make a plugin to allow for custom content and to enable our stuff to be loaded into the software, will be issued with a "Cease" order....Now I have seen this happen too many times from the WotC BS machine.

I will say again, pathetic and useless. Now if Wotc and Hasbro split, sacked Atari and gave the license to a better publisher and found another maker for the game license. Now that would be sweet, yet I doubt that will happen in my life time so as I said...GoodBye
 

Remove ads

Top