Kensai Weapons, and Monk Weapons In General

[doctorbadwolf]

So, no one thinks the Monk is a damage powerhouse, right?

Why, then, does the Monk, and especially the Kensai, get locked out from using polearms and other heavy weapons?

I mean, you can use a whip I think as a Kensai, but why not as a regular Monk? Give me that good rope dart Monk, my dudes!

Is there a strong balance concern here that I’m missing?

also, more generally, are there any other restrictions in the game that bug you in the same vein?

 

[Psyzhran2357]

Given the Monk's niche of single target lockdown, maybe reach weapons are OP?

 

[Zardnaar]

So, no one thinks the Monk is a damage powerhouse, right?

Why, then, does the Monk, and especially the Kensai, get locked out from using polearms and other heavy weapons?

I mean, you can use a whip I think as a Kensai, but why not as a regular Monk? Give me that good rope dart Monk, my dudes!

Is there a strong balance concern here that I’m missing?

also, more generally, are there any other restrictions in the game that bug you in the same vein?

Because polearms don't operate like Soul Calibur think more pikeman formation.

In game dex based heavy weapons are a monumentally bad idea. Dex is already OP the only thing keeping it in check is better/OP strength based feats at least for melee (dex has OP ranged feats). Dex based PAM+GW+ ability to be good with a bow as well and take sharpshooter is a bit much.

 

[Leatherhead]

Nearly all of the arbitrary weapon restrictions in 5e are for "thematic" reasons, not mechanical ones.
This is largely because the weapon list itself is more than a little borked, and missing several 2nd-string weapons that weren't quite as "iconic" as the list we got. The Meteor Hammer, for example, could have been a Monk Reach Weapon.


Whats interesting specifically in the case of the Monk, in regards to Stunning Strike (which people think is OP with reach for some reason):

Starting at 5th level, you can interfere with the flow of ki in an opponent’s body. When you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.

You totally can stun someone with a whip, as per RAW. Heck, you can even use Flurry of Blows after using a whip with your Attack Action!
The only thing you can't do is make the whip scale with Martial Arts.

 

[TwoSix]

Because polearms don't operate like Soul Calibur think more pikeman formation.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Given the Monk's niche of single target lockdown, maybe reach weapons are OP?

How, though? Also, they could easily have restricted Stunning Strike to unarmed attacks.

Because polearms don't operate like Soul Calibur think more pikeman formation.

IRL, they do both. Polearms weren’t just used in formations. They were also used by duelists, by people wanting to unseat cavalry, and by Kung fu and other martial arts traditions.

In game dex based heavy weapons are a monumentally bad idea. Dex is already OP the only thing keeping it in check is better/OP strength based feats at least for melee (dex has OP ranged feats). Dex based PAM+GW+ ability to be good with a bow as well and take sharpshooter is a bit much.

Monks can already do most of that. Polearm master works with a spear.
They could easily have included a polearm that lacks the Heavy property, making the PAM+GWM combo not fully functional with it.

Nearly all of the arbitrary weapon restrictions in 5e are for "thematic" reasons, not mechanical ones.
This is largely because the weapon list itself is more than a little borked, and missing several 2nd-string weapons that weren't quite as "iconic" as the list we got. The Meteor Hammer, for example, could have been a Monk Reach Weapon.

Whats interesting specifically in the case of the Monk, in regards to Stunning Strike (which people think is OP with reach for some reason):

You totally can stun someone with a whip, as per RAW. Heck, you can even use Flurry of Blows after using a whip with your Attack Action!
The only thing you can't do is make the whip scale with Martial Arts.

And it’s really silly that you can’t scale the whip. Why? Surely rope darts and spike chains are Monk weapons. Spiked Chain is a dnd classic. I went ahead and added it as basically a whip with versatile (d6), that is a monk weapon.

 

[77IM]

You can scale the whip if you select it as a kensei weapon. I plan to do this to represent a kusarigama. (When you use it on people within 5 feet, you're hitting them with the sickle end.) If I ever get to be a player.

I'd also like to see naginata as a non-heavy two-handed d8 reach weapon. That seems pretty reasonable and would be an interesting option for kensei as an alternative to the longsword/battleaxe/warhammer (which is currently their best option). It would probably be OP for base monks, whose current best option is the d8 spear/staff.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A naginata is basically a glaive - a blade on a stick.

Can anyone think of a good reason not to simply throw away the heavy weapon restriction on kensai? Perhaps replace it with a 1d10 damage cap to ban 2h swords etc?

 

[Zardnaar]

A naginata is basically a glaive - a blade on a stick.

Can anyone think of a good reason not to simply throw away the heavy weapon restriction on kensai? Perhaps replace it with a 1d10 damage cap to ban 2h swords etc?

Dex based polearms and the PAM feat and possibly GWM feat combo as well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Dex based polearms and the PAM feat and possibly GWM feat combo as well.

The PAM bonus action attack is useless for a monk, and the reach opportunity attack isn't very powerful. Dex based polearm is no better than a whip for a high level kensai, GWM might be an issue. Perhaps adding non-heavy polearms is a better solution.