Killing a character through roleplaying

[prosfilaes]

Character and character concept are the same thing to me.

But they aren't. It's like a painting versus a description of a painting. A concept's a concept, a few lines of description; a character is what that grows into, something that can't be confined on paper, but only exists completely in the head of the player.

Choosing to do something that doesn't screw over everyone else playing the game doesn't mean I am not roleplaying.

Choosing to do something based on factors besides "what would my character do?" isn't really roleplaying.

How much fun would it be for you if the other players decide that their characters wouldn't associate with a character that runs and leaves them hanging?

I didn't leave them hanging; I went the same direction half the party was going and half the party had gone. Had I fell, then I probably would have been dead.

Fun for you - had the DM not eased up on the rest of the group, how much fun would they have had?

If a DM wants to push the limits of the party, he needs to adapt the challenge to what the party has. I don't see any difference between a DM adjusting the size of a battle for the party strength before the game or in the middle of a night after a character died.

Again it appears we have different play styles - I no longer have much patience for "but it's what my character would do" reasoning - now days it usually results in the other players reasoning that their characters wouldn't associate with the problem character.

So a character who is afraid of spiders is right out? Or will he suddenly turn into an emotionless killing machine if presented with a giant spider or drider?

 

[Pentius]

So a character who is afraid of spiders is right out? Or will he suddenly turn into an emotionless killing machine if presented with a giant spider or drider?

I actually do have moderate arachnophobia, and handle it by aggressively killing any spider I happen to see. So, that wouldn't really be an unreasonable way to play a character.

 

[Abraxas]

But they aren't. It's like a painting versus a description of a painting. A concept's a concept, a few lines of description; a character is what that grows into, something that can't be confined on paper, but only exists completely in the head of the player.

We apparently have different definitions - character concept is character to me - it's everything that defines the character and how it plays.

Choosing to do something based on factors besides "what would my character do?" isn't really roleplaying.

There are many ways to portray what your character would do that don't potentially screw with the rest of the players.

Look around on this site and you will find many threads about players who do things with the "It's what my character would do" mind set that mess up games. The general response is it's the players responsibility to find something that the character would do that doesn't mess up the game.

I didn't leave them hanging; I went the same direction half the party was going and half the party had gone. Had I fell, then I probably would have been dead.

Sorry, you didn't mention that half the party was running also - that puts a different spin on things. Due to your 2nd post I was under the impression that you had your character bail on the party in a situation that could have ended the campaign. Given that half the party had routed also, what your character was doing wouldn't bother me at all.

If a DM wants to push the limits of the party, he needs to adapt the challenge to what the party has. I don't see any difference between a DM adjusting the size of a battle for the party strength before the game or in the middle of a night after a character died.

Just like you see a difference between character concept and character I see a difference between adjusting the encounter before the session's start and adjusting it on the fly due to the events that occur during the game. One is setting up a challenge, the other is changing the outcome. If, during the course of play, the party suffers losses and then presses on regardless I don't expect the DM to change the scenario - in fact when I have been involved in games where that has happened I am extremely disappointed and discouraged. It adds insult to injury IMO.

So a character who is afraid of spiders is right out? Or will he suddenly turn into an emotionless killing machine if presented with a giant spider or drider?

No, you can definitely play a character that's afraid of spiders - but don't be upset when your character gets left in town when the party goes after the drow enclave. One of the problems I have with this type of roleplaying is that it usually is only expected to work one way. The party has to accept the lone character's issues but when the logical response would be to leave that character behind - that is considered unreasonable.

I prefer that you, as a player, figure out how to portray that aspect of your character without forcing others to use meta game reasoning why they keep your character with them. It's the benefit of the many vs the benefit of the one. YMMVAPD and all that.

 

[Lord Ipplepop]

I was playing in a group that wandered into a cemetery and were immediately set upon by the various undead wandering the place. The Paladin (my character) immediately jumped into action to rid the world of this evil. The Ranger was right on his heels to rid the world of the abberations, and the rest of the party decided to back up these two idiots.

The party was pretty well beat up and needed some serious healing (with a cleric who was out of spells) and was starting to back out. The Paladin, who was down to less than 10 hit points, stayed in the battle to cover his friends' retreat.

Two zombies later, the Paladin lay dead in the cemetery.

A couple of the newer players thought I was an idiot for not running; however, the more experienced players realized I was role playing a paladin and he was doing what paladins do.

 

[Oryan77]

he was doing what paladins do.

Not my paladins!

How can I help more people and spread my goodness across the lands if I'm dead? No, I'm running with my comrades and hopefully we'll still get away. If they somehow don't make it but I do, then I'll say a prayer, notify their loved ones, keep him in my thoughts, and search out some new comrades that can benefit from my goodness (until they die too).

 

[Summer-Knight925]

So a character who is afraid of spiders is right out? Or will he suddenly turn into an emotionless killing machine if presented with a giant spider or drider?

This happened in my group before, they were attacked by a fiendish spider and one of the players who is VERY afraid of spiders attacked this thing so fiercely, he wanted it dead before it was born, very fantastical

 

[delericho]

a DM should never put in a challenge the PCs cannot overcome

I disagree. The DM should never put in a challenge that the PCs cannot overcome or work around, avoid or flee. Not everything in the world needs to be nicely level-appropriate.

(But, as indicated, I agree that there's no point in just randomly killing the PCs with no 'escape hatch'.)

It appears we have different play styles then - the DM pulling punches to save the group's collective butts is a huge fun killer for me.

Yeah, mostly I agree.

To my (limited) shame, I actually had to do this very thing last night. It was my own fault - I set up an encounter that I thought the PCs should be able to handle, but I misjudged the EL more than a little.

Also, having rolled poorly all night, I then rolled really well for initiative in this encounter, and then managed to hit with almost every attack (and all those sneak attack dice seemed to come up 5's or 6's). Before they even got to act, every PC was badly wounded, one was bleeding to death, and they were still heavily outnumbered.

Now, to be fair, the PCs didn't do their cause any great good by then having their tank give up his action to stabilise the dying character, vastly reducing the damage they dealt in turn. And they got some really sucky rolls on their own attacks. Even so, if things had been allowed to play out, that would have been a TPK, and the end of the campaign.

So, reluctantly, I pulled some punches, and let the PCs flee (and live to fight another day). They've made some powerful enemies as a result, so it's not without consequence.

Still, it wasn't a terribly satisfying end to the session.

 

[Lord Ipplepop]

Not my paladins!

How can I help more people and spread my goodness across the lands if I'm dead? No, I'm running with my comrades and hopefully we'll still get away. If they somehow don't make it but I do, then I'll say a prayer, notify their loved ones, keep him in my thoughts, and search out some new comrades that can benefit from my goodness (until they die too).

He didn't stay there to die... he was protecting his comrades retreat and then he was going to haul his own metal covered backside... lawful good come sometimes also be lawful chicken....
The only reason he didn't get the opportunity to bail was the zombies got better rolls than I.
By covering his comrades' retreat, he was acting as a paladin should (1ed, anyhow)

 

[Abraxas]

Yeah, mostly I agree.

To my (limited) shame, I actually had to do this very thing last night. It was my own fault - I set up an encounter that I thought the PCs should be able to handle, but I misjudged the EL more than a little.

- snip the middle parts for brevity -

So, reluctantly, I pulled some punches, and let the PCs flee (and live to fight another day). They've made some powerful enemies as a result, so it's not without consequence.

Still, it wasn't a terribly satisfying end to the session.

I've had the luck of gaming with the same group of people for the last 20 years or so and have a really good understanding of how they play and what their characters can handle - so I haven't had a problem like you describe in quite awhile.