Killing a retriever (aka The Neverending Fight)

[Demogorge]

From the SRD:

Retriever

...

Construct: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, disease, and similar effects. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.

Regeneration (Ex): Blessed and holy weapons deal normal damage to retrievers.

Since a Retriever is immune to subdual damage, it seems like the only way to do ANY damage to a Retriever is with blessed or holy weapons. Is this correct? If so I would love to see this thing try to retrieve a Tarrasque. They couldn't damage each other! The Tarrasque would repeatedly Swallow Whole the retriever and the retriever would claw its way out.

But seriously, energy damage, cure spells, what would work on this thing? (besides disintegrate and the like)

 

[pontus]

Retrievers should have Fast Healing and not Regeneration.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

A (greater) magic weapon spell cast by a good cleric, the cleric of a good deity or a paladin would do the trick.

It's true that it doesn't leave a lot of other options. I wonder if there isn't an errata because this situation doesn't make a lot of sense.

Personnally, I'd rule that the retriever is immune to normal subdual (i.e. being bashed over the head with a sap) like any other construct but not to normal damage that has been converted into subdual because of his regeneration ability.

Basically, if you hit the retriever with a big sword or a sonic effect, it'll crack a little but it'll mend at a rate of 5 HP each round unless the damage comes from a blessed or holy weapon.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

Retrievers should have Fast Healing and not Regeneration.

Yes, that's it! Why didn't I think of it? *slap myself over the head*

 

[Demogorge]

Retrievers should have Fast Healing and not Regeneration.

Geez, that makes them a lot weaker! They should have just taken away their construct-ness and left the regeneration.

 

[Demogorge]

Chapter 2: The Bebelith

How does a Bebelith merit CR 9?

Bite: +19, 2d6+9 and poison

Claws: +14, 2d4+4 and armor damage

Armor Damage (Ex): A bebilith’s claws can catch and tear an opponent’s armor. If the opponent has both armor and a shield, roll 1d6: A roll of 1-4 affects the armor and a roll of 5-6 affects the shield. Make a grapple check whenever the bebilith hits with a claw attack, adding to the opponent’s roll any magical bonus for the armor or shield. If the bebilith wins, the affected armor or shield is torn away and ruined.

The bebelith is Huge and has a 28 Str, so it makes the grapple check at a total +27. So it's going to destroy your armor.

Plus, protective aura, plane shifting, AC 25, climbing, and DR 30/+3. I just cant imagine a 9th level party having any chance of beating this thing without preparation, not to mention losing 1000s of GP in magic items.

Do they assume you will have a Dismissal or Magic Circle ready?

 

[Morose]

All CRs assume a party is "reasonably prepared" to face the challenge. Take that as you will.

 

[Demogorge]

Really? No offense, but can you give me a page reference to the DMG on that? I have never heard that before... That would explain CRs quite a bit.

 

[MythandLore]

Since a Retriever is immune to subdual damage, it seems like the only way to do ANY damage to a Retriever is with blessed or holy weapons. Is this correct? If so I would love to see this thing try to retrieve a Tarrasque. They couldn't damage each other! The Tarrasque would repeatedly Swallow Whole the retriever and the retriever would claw its way out.

But seriously, energy damage, cure spells, what would work on this thing? (besides disintegrate and the like)

You pretty much need a blessed or holy weapon to kill them, that's why they can be CR10 with only 55hp.
Very few spells work on golems too.
Most Constructs have a lot of immunites.
A Retriever is a tough cookie to crack, but all you need is like a cleric to cast spells on weapons.
Stuff like the spell disintegrate can work too.
You'll notice they have no SR to stop that.

How does a Bebelith merit CR 9?

Bebeliths are bad ---Mo-fos.
When I was running a game that got into high levels (18th) there was a player that got so angry he almost cried when his armor was destroyed, theres not much that he could do about it ether.
Just use Bebeliths when ever you want to destroy a fighter's armor, it always will. (Poor fighters, they already suck as it is)

Really? No offense, but can you give me a page reference to the DMG on that? I have never heard that before... That would explain CRs quite a bit.

DMG p101-102.

______________

You guys know whats a great monster to send at a party, "Nightshade Nightcrawlers".
They are barrels full of fun.
Those guys are great.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

All CRs assume a party is "reasonably prepared" to face the challenge. Take that as you will.

That's for dragons.

I haven't heard of that for the outsiders. This wouldn't be a good excuse because while some CR are too low (i.e Solar), others are too high (i.e. Balor).

CR for outsiders are just not very accurate.