D&D 5E Killing a Teammate

[iserith]

I might rule the Intelligence save first, so they can remember what God they are supposed to be begging for help, followed by a Religion, or persuasion save, to convince the God to begin them on the road to recovery. Or you could ask your God to get in touch with a God who CAN help you, in exchange for you owing a favor to your deity. Good story opportunities there, whenever your god chooses to call it in.

What happens if the player fails the save or check?

 

[Maxperson]

The wording is to cover trap the soul or other specific spells that would interfere.'

The wording is for ANY reason that would or could prevent return. Your unproveable assumptions hold no weight.

DM fiat is petty DM fiat, just like if a DM decides no one will cast a Greater Restoration spell for you.

5e is all about DM fiat. Rulings over rules is what 5e is about.

Can I ask you, how often you just spontaneously decide to have a PC not be able to be resurrected?

Raising is rare in my games. My players and I don't enjoy playing whack-a-mole with death. However, I wouldn't just arbitrarily prevent a PC from coming back if I were going by RAW. There would have to be a reason. In game, however, the PC can't know that they would be coming back. That information is for the players.

 

[Maxperson]

What happens if the player fails the save or check?

Speaking for myself, then that particular avenue fails and depending on what the check is for, may or may not be repeatable. If I were to allow an intelligence check to regain a point, I would allow that check to happen daily. A failed roll would just mean no increase that day. If it were a check to see if a god would help, it would not only be very difficult, but you'd only ever get one roll, barring some extreme circumstance such as the group doing an outstanding favor for the temple. That said, those would mostly be things that the players/PCs are trying, so failure wouldn't really mean a whole lot.

As the DM I would have a separate plan for recovery that they don't know about. I'm not going to leave a player sitting bored.

 

[Neonchameleon]

In the game I'm running, the fighter was hit by an Intellect Devourer's Devour Intellect ability, so she now has an Int of 0 (though the rest of the party managed to kill it before it could do anything more). The party is currently level three. The players are arguing that they should kill her character or let her die naturally, since they won't be able to restore her until they hit level nine and can cast greater restoration, and they won't be able to reach a settlement to hire an NPC caster for at least a few months in-game (probably eight to ten sessions). I'm arguing that that would be an irredeemably evil act (killing a helpless ally), and would cause the Paladin to fall and the cleric to have to choose a new deity.

I'm not against any mercy killing, but the character is just effectively stunned until they reach level nine or get to a settlement, so I can't see any justification for them killing the character.

With apologies to the Smiths (and to ISIHAC):

PC in a coma, got to
guard from - orc patrols
PC in a coma, we have
got no - no feeding tube
There were times
When I could
Have 'murdered' her
(but, you know, I would hate
Anything to happen to her)
NO, I DON'T WANT TO SEE HER

Do you really think
She'll pull through?
PC in a coma, got to
get her - diapers changed
There were times when I could
Have 'strangled' her
(but, you know, I would hate
Anything to happen to her)
WOULD YOU PLEASE
LET ME SEE HER!
You seriously think
She'll pull through?
Maybe later she will rise

I know - NEED A NEW PC!

Seriously, the average party of PCs is unable to cope with a PC in a coma (i.e. Int 0) for more than about a day IC.

 

[Mirtek]

I also seriously think you misjudge how bad it is to be dead in D&D. The only resurrection I can recall in the novels I read was Lwlianna Vrinn in the Lady Penitent series. It doesn't happen often, requires high level, and things could go wrong. You don't go to the happy hunting grounds. You go to the fugue plain until someone comes to pick you up. If someone comes.

Oh it happens often enough in novels. There's even a spy agency that operates by having it's spies allowing themselves to be captured and kiled after learning the desired secrets, so that whoever they spied on thinks his secret is still ssve and doesn't change plans. Then they res their spy with a toe they severed before sending him on tge mission. Understandably their services are not cheap

Once a ressurected spy even had to fight one of her former corpses turned into a soulless wight.

 

[Lanliss]

What happens if the player fails the save or check?

If they fail the Intelligence check, they have to beg randomly, and hope a benevolent God hears their prayers. If they fail the religion check, they might get no response, but might run into a less benevolent deity. The less benevolent might ask for a binding contract to restore their mind, or simply take their soul, and leave nothing but a husk.

 

[iserith]

Speaking for myself, then that particular avenue fails and depending on what the check is for, may or may not be repeatable. If I were to allow an intelligence check to regain a point, I would allow that check to happen daily. A failed roll would just mean no increase that day. If it were a check to see if a god would help, it would not only be very difficult, but you'd only ever get one roll, barring some extreme circumstance such as the group doing an outstanding favor for the temple. That said, those would mostly be things that the players/PCs are trying, so failure wouldn't really mean a whole lot.

As the DM I would have a separate plan for recovery that they don't know about. I'm not going to leave a player sitting bored.

If they fail the Intelligence check, they have to beg randomly, and hope a benevolent God hears their prayers. If they fail the religion check, they might get no response, but might run into a less benevolent deity. The less benevolent might ask for a binding contract to restore their mind, or simply take their soul, and leave nothing but a husk.

Lanliss wins due to the potential use of fail forward.

 

[Maxperson]

Lanliss wins due to the potential use of fail forward.

It wasn't a competition. In any case, his answer was no better or worse than mine. Just different.

 

[iserith]

It wasn't a competition.

That is why you lose.

 

[Sunseeker]

Lanliss wins due to the potential use of fail forward.

Personally, I like Maxperson's version better. Lanliss's version is another SOD right off the bat, followed by another SOD to get a benevolent god, an interpretation which essentially leaves it up to DM discretion. Is anything below a 19 going to attempt to trick you? Or is anything above a 1 going to be earnestly helpful? Maxperson's may not give you back your whole brain in a single roll, but there's a guaranteed success over time, plus the rules are up-front and clear to the player.

I'd probably roll it somewhere in between, but the disabled player isn't going to be able to plead with the gods without some kind of spirit walking. I would rule that the spirit is not limited by the damage to the body and if separated in a ritual, could go on an astral-form quest of sorts. Heck, take the whole party along that sounds like fun. The party could just as well run into some kind of wandering nomad who could do such a thing!

Or perhaps a more diabolical ritual could drain Int from several willing (or possibly unwilling) parties to restore the player.