King Arthur and DnD

Felix,

You're in Arlington? I'm in Herndon. I have a big stack of Pendragon stuff if you want to look at it. The strength and weakness of the game is that it is 100% Arthurian goodness. Why is that a weakness? Well, for example, there is no stealth skill, because why would a knight of the round table want to sneak about?

I'd want the books back eventually, but it's not like I'm reading them now. If this sounds nifty send me an e-mail and we'll figure something out.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Okay, I haven't found a single website yet that collects together the problems with Whyte, per se, but I can mark a few points just off the top of my head.

(most of this is drawn from Skystone, as that one I looked into the most closely; I stopped reading the series halfway through the third book)

The main characters have a deep and abiding love for the Roman Republic, as opposed to the Roman Empire. However, the Republic that they speak of died in the early 2nd century BC, around the time of Marius. The subsequent wars (up through Octavius) wiped out most memory of anything approaching "democractic" institutions in Rome. Admittedly Rome technically remained a Republic (Res Publica) and nominally the Senate had a major say in matters, but the knowledge these officers showed of the workings of the old Republic is fairly amazing.

Whyte certainly knows Roman infantry tactics. Unfortunately the tactics he is familiar with had not been practiced for nearly 150 years by the time his book begins -- they were the primary form of warfare during the time of the Roman civil wars (1st century BC through 1st century AD). These are classical Roman maniple/checkerboard tactics, which has been subsequently replaced by a more solid mass of troops, with greater reliance on skirmishers, cavalry, and many types of "irregular" troops. Nevertheless Gaius Publus Varrus is able to train troops, many of whom were unfamiliar with any form of serious tactics, within a matter of weeks to handle such complicated manuevers. This defies belief.

On the same topic, the entire colony is set up as a home for citizen soldiers, yet not only do they raise a vast amount of crops, but they these farmers are highly trained soldiers. This was not even true with the Romans for the most part (other than in the writings of Livy, whom I love, but are often far from truthful). In most areas it would be assumed that full-time, fully prepared soldiers must each be supported by 8-10 fulltime farmers; cavalry troops require even great numbers this way. And the ability to "hide" such a huge group of people is beyond all belief.

Whyte also shows a misunderstanding of Roman naming conventions. In the name Gaius Publus Varrus, for example, Gaius is the given name, but Publus is the family name. Gaius is of the Publi, not of the Varri; it is this middle name that would be inhereted by his family, not the final name.

And as for the use of the "skystone" and its subsequent many forms, well, I have a friend who is a blacksmith screamed reading these segments -- by his estimation, the re-forged sword would be good for one blow, at best, before it shattered.

There are many other points, but it is not really worth it to enter into a full-blown debate on this topic on this forum, though I invite anyone interested to contact me either by private message or through my e-mail address :)

But back to games, which is far more important!

The book Legends of Excalibur looks awfully good for D20; I have not had a chance to actually use it yet. S&R: Excalibur is more questionable, mainly because I am utterly unsure what sort of Arthurian legend they are attempting to capture -- it feels more like a Michael Moorcock parallel dimension rather than the legends themselves. That is not bad, but it would be best if it were advertised as such. The Medieval Player's Manual is a joy and could easily be used to recreate a medieval Arthurian feel.

For a more "period" feel, I think we are still waiting, as the time period we are talking about (c. 400 AD) is not quite the ancient world and not quite the medieval.

And, yes, Pendragon, though not D20 and aimed primarily at Mallory, is a marvel :)
 

BG,

The Nameless Administrator has turned off the email bit, so I can't get you through your profile. If you don't want to write out your add, you could send me an email at: austin_midd AT hotmail DOT com. Or of course you could write it down on the thread and I'll shoot an email off to you. Either way. And yes, that would be super-dooper cool of you to let me borrow your books.

Everybody else,

Thanks for the stuff, and I will indeed look through those books once I get through Goodkind's Sword of Truth stuff. It'll go on my list. And as far as Arthurian legends go, I don't think truth should get in the way of a good story. :) Guess that's why I dug the flick.

Has anyone else run a DnD/d20 version of early 5th-6th Century England? What was your plot/intrigue/campaign?
 

Coming to the Game Day?

Felix,

Are you coming to the EN World Game Day on 10/2 (see .sig). I am running a 1-shot about a young Romano-British Warlord and his band of retainers seeking an ancient talisman to help hold back the Saxon hordes ;)!

I am using a Grim Tales/3.5 Hybrid rule set...I would strongly suggest you consider using the Grim Tales system (especially the magic system) to capture the low (rare) magic, high adventure feel of this type setting. My own Faded Glory homebrew has many elements of Dark Ages Britain, Gallic/Frankish tribes, a crumbling Romano/Byzantine Empire, etc.

Check it out...

~ Old One
 

Old One,

I was signed up for Bill2825's game, but was doing that because I'm on a collegiate rowing team and I don't have the schedule for the Fall yet.

But if there is an alternate spot in your game I would love to jump in, but just so you know I won't be sure of my availablility until September... and I will check out Faded Glory; your little pimp worked. ;)
 

I would also suggest the Alea Iacta story hour, although it's set about 200 or so years earlier.

Although on your list, you really shouldn't have Vikings; they didn't turn up as a recognizable entity until several hundred years later -- in fact some of the Anglo-Saxon tribes themselves come from lands that much later emerge as viking territory (Jutland in Denmark, the Wuffingas of Sutton Hoo fame linked with Uppsala Sweden, etc.)

Welshmen may be a bit anachronistic as well; the term Welsh is from an Anglo-Saxon (Old English) word that means foreigner. To the Anglo-Saxons, all the Britons would be Welsh, but it wouldn't be anything like the word as we know it today.

Really, for research, I suggest putting aside game products for a bit and looking up some real history at your library. There's a great book on Arthurian Britain from Osprey Military Press as well, that focuses on military institutions of the time, with wonderful illustrations by Angus McBride.

And I'd also recommend Bernard Cornwell's books. For what it's worth, Cornwall is famous for all kinds of historical fiction, notably the Sharpe series, but on his website, he says the Warlord Trilogy is his favorite of all the work he's done.

And I'm sure there's a GURPS book on the subject, and GURPS is probably a good system for that kind of game, too.
 
Last edited:

Thanks for the info Wombat. Now I have to go back and read the first few books to look at it in detail :\

Would you recommend a really good in-depth book on Roman or early Medieval Military history?

Cheers,
 

Gregor said:
Would you recommend a really good in-depth book on Roman or early Medieval Military history?

Joshua Dyal has the right of it by beginning with the Osprey Men-At-Arms books -- they are (comparatively) easy to get ahold of, draw on a variety of sources, and very well written.

If you can find it, David Nicolle's Medieval Warfare Source Book (1999, Brockhampton Press) is a really fantastic clearing house for a lot of military material, starting with information from the 400s. Of course, Nicolle also writes up many of the medieval titles for Osprey, so there will be some crossover.

I'll try and get some more specific titles up here a bit later.
 

Remove ads

Top