Kits vs Prestige Classes

[Ron]

I voted for kits. TSR surely made a poor job implementing them over most 2nd edition books, although I cannot say much better regarding most Prestige Classes we see today. At least, kits could be used with first level characters, whereas most prestige classes are only available to characters with at least 8th levels, already over the limit I like to play D&D.

 

[The Human Target]

I should start out by saying that I am one of those "I'd prefer classless" people. But, between PrCs and kits, I prefer the concept of kits over the concept of PrCs.

I emphasize the word "concept" because I don't want to get into individual PrCs and individual kits since there are both good and bad examples, in my opinion, of each of those.

Word. I'll also say that I agree with however said substition levels are the true heir to kits. And I really prefer them to both PRCs and Kits in practice.

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

I voted kits. But I don't mean 2e kits. I mean 3e kits as they could have been.

In my perfect little world (tm), the original splat books would have had no prestige classes at all (and wouldn't have started that particular rot). Instead it would have had kits in the sense of reciepes - "dread pirates learn swim, jump and intimidate, specialise in scimitars and take every third level as rogue"; "dark avengers normally even multiclass ranger and fighter, with a particular emphasis on hiding and spotting, they lose their divine spells and gain xyz instead".

i.e. I think 3e kits *done right* would have been example recipes to illustrate how multiclassing, skill and feat choice could be used to create all kinds of fantasy archetypes, and this would be supplemented by more example class modifications to build upon the dozen or so that are already mentioned in the PHB and DMG (that fighter/rogue hybrid, the ranger/paladin hybrid etc)

That is the 'kits' that I'd have liked to see. Ah well.

Cheers

Make me a PHB.

 

[Li Shenron]

Actually, I was surprised they didn't offer much in Unearthed Arcana the way class variants were offered in a 3-part Dragon magazine series (#310-312).

This sounds interesting... was that series just more generous in the amount of variants, or did it have a different approach?

 

[Ranger REG]

This sounds interesting... was that series just more generous in the amount of variants, or did it have a different approach?

A different approach, close to substitution levels. For example, a fighter class variant allow you to swap one of the vacant bonus fighter feats for a particular ability tailored to the variant class. The variant class also modifies your starting weapon proficiencies as well as your class skills as appropriate.

I like this so much I did a Samurai figher class variant and posted on the Wizards' messageboard. If there is such a kit rules for 3e, I would have chosen this to be the preferred model, especially when it doesn't get in the way of multiclassing, which 2e kit rules are a bit ambiguous about it.

 

[genshou]

However, if you have fleshed out cultures, not everything makes sense having to work towards in the progression. It makes sense that there will be variants on the archetypes due to culture, occupation or economic background that should be reflected at first level. In such cases 2e kits and 3.x variant classes make more sense then waiting for a PrC (which is not to suggest that there would then be no place for PrCs).

It's nice to have a variant class sometimes...

But I've played a ninja as a straight monk before, I've played a Knight of the Chalice without a single level in the prestige class of the same name, and I've had a Thief-Acrobat who described himself as "just a thief". The presence or absence of a prestige class isn't the only thing that determines a role in society (there was an Order of the Stick comic that dealt with this). A high-level rogue makes for a fairly sneaky ninja and may even be able to gain membership in an organization like the Ninja of the Crescent Moon, but probably wouldn't do so well trying to emulate the weird skills of the Shadowdancers. There's a place for prestige classes, and it's as a niche for powerful PC class members, not a place for ordinary, low-level characters to fulfill their roles.

Also, prestige classes aren't both permanent and initial. What if the game ends up moving in a different direction than a player expected? Now their character will be left behind in the dust, just because of a choice in variant class...