Knight with Spiked Chain. Broken?

[RigaMortus2]

Actually, the PHB2 knight's code only has the following "restrictions":

1. Don't use your flanking bonus.
2. Don't attack a flat-footed enemy.
3. Don't deal lethal damage to a helpless enemy.

More to the point, the knight is using his own skill and training to hamper his opponent, in the same way that he can use Shield Block to prevent a foe's attack from hitting, or Daunting Challenge to leave weak foes shaken. A tactic can be effective without being dishonorable.

Just to clarify, these things you listed are not really "restrictions". The Knight can still do these things, they just get penalized by losing 1 use of their Knight's Challenge. You do not lose Knighthood or become an ex-Knight if you perform any of these "restricted" maneuvers.

That is the mechancial penalty. The DM is always allowed to enforce roleplay penalities as well, but that would be a Rule 0 type of situation. Make sure the player is aware of this before you hit him with it.

 

[IcyCool]

Reading the code of honor I believe forbids this. Fame and glory, what honor is ther in testing yourself against an enemy that can't attack you with yours and his full abilities. If you get full attack and he doesn't, you would be in violation of the code.

I wonder, what use is this ability without a reach weapon? It doesn't stop foes from charging the Knight (it's only difficult terrain if you start your turn being threatened by the knight), it doesn't stop foes from leaving the threatened area with a 5' step (apparently, difficult terrain only matters if you are stepping into it, not leaving it). So it stops a foe from 5' stepping around inside a knights threatened area, and makes it cost more movement to move past him.

 

[Merkuri]

I wonder, what use is this ability without a reach weapon? It doesn't stop foes from charging the Knight (it's only difficult terrain if you start your turn being threatened by the knight), it doesn't stop foes from leaving the threatened area with a 5' step (apparently, difficult terrain only matters if you are stepping into it, not leaving it). So it stops a foe from 5' stepping around inside a knights threatened area, and makes it cost more movement to move past him.

That's exactly what it is. The knight is designed to protect physically weaker allies like casters. A knight is good at keeping enemies from getting past him and forcing enemies to attack him instead of (as someone else phrased it) the squishier PCs. By making them treat the area around him as difficult terrain it becomes harder to pass him, especially in an enclosed space like a dungeon hallway.

 

[James McMurray]

It's especially useful against those pesky rogues that like to tumble around and trough people.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It's especially useful against those pesky rogues that like to tumble around and trough people.

But w/o a reach weapon, how is a Rogue prevented from Tumbling past the Knight if they do not start their turn 5 feet next to them? Let alone just using regular movement to get past them. The reach weapon will make them provoke, but still does not prevent or hinder them from moving past the Knight.

Basically, if you want to move past a Knight, just don't start your turn 5 feet next to them.

 

[werk]

It's especially useful against those pesky rogues that like to tumble around and trough people.

Or from horseback, using a reach weapon...

 

[James McMurray]

But w/o a reach weapon, how is a Rogue prevented from Tumbling past the Knight if they do not start their turn 5 feet next to them? Let alone just using regular movement to get past them. The reach weapon will make them provoke, but still does not prevent or hinder them from moving past the Knight.

Basically, if you want to move past a Knight, just don't start your turn 5 feet next to them.

True, it's not foolproof. The reach weapon just makes it work a little better.

 

[IcyCool]

The knight is designed to protect physically weaker allies like casters. A knight is good at keeping enemies from getting past him and forcing enemies to attack him instead of (as someone else phrased it) the squishier PCs.

I get that, and pretty much all of their other class abilities are terrific for that. This one isn't all that grand (or even all that useful) without a reach weapon. If the foe doesn't start their turn being threatened by the Knight, they can completely ignore the ability. Mr. Sneaky rogue or Monky McTumbles-Alot will blast right past him with a tumble, so long as they started outside his threat range. It would have at least been better to have the area that the knight threatens be considered difficult terrain, regardless of whether you started in it or not (I know that negates charging the knight, which is a bit potent, but the rule could've exempted that).

 

[Merkuri]

I get that, and pretty much all of their other class abilities are terrific for that. This one isn't all that grand (or even all that useful) without a reach weapon. If the foe doesn't start their turn being threatened by the Knight, they can completely ignore the ability.

Don't forget that the knight can AOO an enemy passing through his threatened squares. If he gets an attack off the enemy is stopped there, and next turn has to deal with the threatened area. Also, after a certain level he gains the ability to provoke enemies into attacking him, which can also "trap" them in the knight's threatened squares.

Personally, I don't think reach versus no reach makes much difference with this ability. You only threaten a small number of squares more with reach (unless you have a weapon like spiked chain, which allows you to threaten adjacent squares as well). As long as the foe inteligently avoids your reach, regardless of if it's 10' or 5', then there's nothing you can do about it with just this ability.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Don't forget that the knight can AOO an enemy passing through his threatened squares. If he gets an attack off the enemy is stopped there, and next turn has to deal with the threatened area.

Not if they make their Tumble checks, they can Tumble right past him w/o provoking.

And even if they do fail their Tumble checks, they will simply provoke an AoO (which could be a Trip I suppose, which WILL prevent them from moving past). But just because you provoke an AoO from a botched Tumble check does not mean you stop Tumbling past the opponent.