Knights and Lances

[Lord Pendragon]

Okay, basically I'm just looking for some verification of rules that I think I have a handle on. Buzz me if I'm wrong on any of this.

A lance is a two-handed weapon.

A lance, when wielded by a fighter upon a charging mount, deals double damages, no feats required.

A lance, when wielded by a fighter with the Spirited Charge feat, upon a charging mount, deals triple damage.

Okay, so far so good, I think. Now to something I couldn't find in the SRD...

A lance, when wielded by a mounted fighter, can be wielded with only one hand, and for purposes of strength bonus and Power Attack is treated as a ___-handed weapon.

One or two-handed?

A lance is a reach weapon that can strike foes 10' away, but not those 5' away. By the new 3.5 facing, a heavy warhorse has a 10'x10' space. How far does the lance's reach extend? Is there anywhere not on the mount that the lance can't reach?

Thanks for any clarification.

 

[Starglim]

Better get the exact text:

Lance:
..
While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.

The rules do not say that the lance becomes a one-handed weapon, so I contend that it remains a two-handed weapon with a special quality that allows you to wield it in one hand.

Horses in Combat:
..
A horse (not a pony) is a Large creature and thus takes up a space 10 feet (2 squares) across. For simplicity, assume that you share your mount’s space during combat.

Since you the attacker share the horse's 10x10 area, the lance can't strike opponents that are adjacent to the horse, but can strike all opponents that are 10 feet away from the horse (think of it as the horse circling to move you into position).

 

[Hypersmurf]

A lance, when wielded by a mounted fighter, can be wielded with only one hand, and for purposes of strength bonus and Power Attack is treated as a ___-handed weapon.

As the rules are written, it's a two-handed weapon.

The FAQ disagrees, but the FAQ demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the 3.5 weapon sizing system in several places. It's like a bizarre mix of 3E and 3.5 rules.

As written, the lance is a two-handed weapon that can be wielded in one hand while mounted. Not a two-handed weapon that is considered a one-handed weapon while mounted.

(Of course, some people dispute this reading, and there's a 22 page thread about it on the WotC boards...)

A lance is a reach weapon that can strike foes 10' away, but not those 5' away. By the new 3.5 facing, a heavy warhorse has a 10'x10' space. How far does the lance's reach extend? Is there anywhere not on the mount that the lance can't reach?

You 'share your mount's space', so you can reach all squares ten feet from the mount, but no squares five feet from the mount. You can't sit 'on the left side' of the horse to attack someone immediately adjacent to the right side; you occupy all four of the horse's squares simultaneously.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

It's quantum indeterminacy on a macroscopic scale, that's what it is.

Consider now a sealed box, containing a horse and rider, a radiation source and geiger counter, and an axe....

 

[Gort]

I'd rule that it's one-handed for purposes of strength and power attack when being used one-handed.

My reasoning is that you get the extra damage because you're putting the strength of both arms into action, and you can't do that if the other hand is using a shield.

The "one handed weapon when on a horse" thing is just there to prevent lances being better than spears for footsoldiers.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Thanks guys! I think I'm going to assume the lance is a two-handed weapon, then, with the special quality that it can be wielded with one hand mounted, unless my DM rules otherwise.

You 'share your mount's space', so you can reach all squares ten feet from the mount, but no squares five feet from the mount. You can't sit 'on the left side' of the horse to attack someone immediately adjacent to the right side; you occupy all four of the horse's squares simultaneously.

Interesting. So it seems you really do need Ride-By Attack to make the lance a good weapon. Otherwise you will end up needing to move out of an opponent's threatened area (the round after you charge, once your foe has moved up to attack you), and be dealt an AoO each time (or lose your attacks for that round by only double-moving away).

Edit: Or take a 5' step, I suppose, but not gain the bonus from charging...

 

[Endur]

Historically, the Knight would drop the lance after the charge and switch to a sword or mace. Presuming he is still in melee. Otherwise, he would charge again.

In D&D 3.5, the recommendation is to use Ride-By Attack to charge and charge again, to maximize damage and minimize the risk to yourself.

So it seems you really do need Ride-By Attack to make the lance a good weapon. Otherwise you will end up needing to move out of an opponent's threatened area (the round after you charge, once your foe has moved up to attack you), and be dealt an AoO each time (or lose your attacks for that round by only double-moving away).

Edit: Or take a 5' step, I suppose, but not gain the bonus from charging...

 

[robberbaron]

I think that if the lance actually hit during the charge it would either be stuck in the target or broken, so a secondary weapon would be necessary.
Therefore, I would rule that the lance takes the same amount of damage as was done to the target.

I also think I would rule that the only circumstances under which you could cleave with a mounted lance would be if the lance didn't break in the first impact and the second target is directly in your line of charge (and you have sufficient movement left to get to it).

A lance is basically a longspear and should be treated as such when used on foot.

 

[jodyjohnson]

For our current campaign which has more mounted combat than typical we give a 1 handed lance normal one handed damage. If you want to get the extra damage for 2 hand, it is an option to use both hands.

There is no prohibition from using 2 handed weapons while mounted.

If you get 2 hand damage with 1 hand, do you get a higher damage amount if you actually use both hands?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you get 2 hand damage with 1 hand, do you get a higher damage amount if you actually use both hands?

Hmm? No, of course not. You're dealing 1.5x Str bonus to damage and 2-for-1 Power Attack because you're wielding a two-handed weapon. The lance is a two-handed weapon no matter how many hands you use to wield it, so the damage doesn't change.

-Hyp.