Knowledge [Local] Solved !

[BluWolf]

I agree understand and agree with how the knowledge skills work. I just think Knowledge local is an inappropriate application of that premise.

In response to your question regarding knowledge Arcana my answer is, of course not. But I don't think the two are related. I think knowledge Arcana represents a field of study. Knowledge local seems to represent a collection of contacts.

I think knowledge local is better handled by roleplaying, off the cuff dice roles and maybe social templates (if your game uses something along those lines).

 

[wuyanei]

I like it. Consider it yoinked. I might even broaden this mechanism to the Speak Language as well -- one rank is enough to speak or read the language, at least enough to communicate, but if you want to write a world-class play or epic poem you need more ranks in the Speak Language (Int) skill as well. (Right now, we use Int modifier Perform skill, which works for the bard but not for a writer)

Not a skill that will often matter in the game, but it does cover a previously unexplained nich.

I like! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Rassilon]

And just to clarify, the ranks you buy to broaden the skill don't count against your max, right? So if I wanted to make a "connected" character who was 6th level, I could spend 9 points to have 9 ranks, plus another 3 or 4 to broaden it to other areas, right? Cool. I would gladly do this for a "fixer" type rogue character.

JimAde you have it exactly - a 6th level character could have 9 ranks in Knowledge [Local] (Home Region), and have purchased 3 or 4 other regions to use the skill for.

Possbile limiter: I haven't decided on (nor mentioned above) allowing only 1 additional region per character level (or something similar).

Rassilon.

 

[JimAde]

JimAde you have it exactly - a 6th level character could have 9 ranks in Knowledge [Local] (Home Region), and have purchased 3 or 4 other regions to use the skill for.

Possbile limiter: I haven't decided on (nor mentioned above) allowing only 1 additional region per character level (or something similar).

Rassilon.

I wouldn't bother. This is the opposite of abusive stacking. You have a character spending skill points to broaden his skill, but his modifier never goes up from it. If you want to have a 6th-level rogue who has a +11 modifier in Knowledge(Local) for 10 different regions, then I say more power to him. Only one of them will be useful at a time, generally.

 

[genshou]

I use a variant on Craft, Knowledge, and Perform which was posted here fairly long ago. I can't find the thread or the writer of this post again, but I do have a copy of the post saved in a Yahoo! group, so here you go, the section of the post relevant to the current discussion. Using this system, I would make Knowledge (Region [Local]) simply be a separate subskill for each region. And I'd recommend cascade skills for everyone; it's THE most asked for house rule in my games now.



Okay, now to the Perform skill fix... Slightly klunky, but with applications
elsewhere, and (IMHO) it makes things better all around, and 3.5e characters
less idiotic.

1) Perform is now a "Cascade Skill". This means that, each time a Rank of
Perform is purchased, a number of Skill Points equal to the Ranks of Perform
is added to the previous total... (Huh?)

It goes like this: A first-level Bard with the maximum four Skill Ranks in
Perform has 10 Skill Points in Perform to spend (1+2+3+4=10).

2) Each Perform Cascade Skill Point MUST BE SPENT ON A SPECIFIC SUBSKILL.
The first level Bard, for instance, could take Perform Sing (4), Harp (4),
Flute (2). At the next level, if they put one more Skill Point into Perform
(keeping it maxed out), then they would have five Ranks of Perform, and gain
an additional FIVE Cascade Skill Points. They could then add one more (each)
to Sing and Harp, and put the other three into Flute (thus having all three
at their Max. Skill Rank of five), or all three into Poetry (having Sing
(5), Harp (5), Flute (2), Poetry (3)).

3) No Synergy Bonuses. If you want to play an instrument, buy that
instrument. You'll have enough points!

4) The more skilled you get, the easier it is to pick up another instrument,
but the more you have, the less skilled you'll be with each.

5) You can still "waste" a few Ranks on Dance, Mime, etc., if you wish. You
can't use them for Bardic Music, but so what? You can now afford it.

6) I leave the ajudication of Perform (Comedy, et al) to the GM... It
doesn't fit my definition of "Bardic Music", but then again, neither does
Perform (Oratory) or Perform (Drums). Handle it as you see fit.

7) In all cases, Cascade Sub-skill Ranks are always limited by Max. Skill
Ranks, like any other skill.

==================

Other Cascade Skills:

I believe that all of the skills with sub-skills should be handled the same
way (YMMV). Namely, Craft, Knowledge, and Profession.

I think it hurts the game very little to have characters being able to get
jobs in various Professions, capable of fixing various things, and
knowledgeable in many areas (particularly when MOST PCs are hampered by MOST
Knowledge skills being Cross-Class for them).

IMHO, PCs who adventure on the Astral Plane should be able to afford some
Knowledge (Planes) when they get back. Fighters should have Knowledge
(History) to cover the ancient battles and tactics they're always talking
about...

With cascade skills, even if Knowledge or a Profession is Cross-Class, a PC
can, in a few levels, max out Skill Ranks in ONE sub-skill, or quickly pick
up a smattering in a few!

Carft/Knowledge/Perform/Profession
Cascade Skill Ranks Skill Points
1 1
2 3
3 6
4 10
5 15
6 21
7 28
8 36
9 45
10 55

 

[Saeviomagy]

Or you could just use K:Local how the rules say to use it, where it applies to nowhere and everywhere all at once. The only problem with it in that case is that it is misnamed, and should probably be thought of as knowledge:civilisation or something along those lines.

Breaking it up into seperate skills is the same as saying to your players "look, it's a waste of time to take ranks in this skill except for role-playing reasons". Knowledge skills aren't the best skills to invest in as-is. Local is the bottom of the list in terms of use and versatility even if it does cover all regions. Making it worse just seems silly.

 

[Li Shenron]

Or you could just use K:Local how the rules say to use it, where it applies to nowhere and everywhere all at once. The only problem with it in that case is that it is misnamed, and should probably be thought of as knowledge:civilisation or something along those lines.

Knowledge(Geography) is the one that covers all regions.

 

[JimAde]

That cascade skill system is great. I'd love to know who came up with it. Thanks for posting it, Genshou.

It's officially yoinked!

 

[DamionW]

Along the lines of this, has anyone tried doing various degrees of language proficiency? I'm thinking of having every language (even Common) have a three point rank system. One rank buys basic travelisms to get you by: "Donde esta el bano?" Two ranks buys a tradesman or immigrant's grasp, and 3 ranks gives full native fluency. It just seems more natural to me than one language over a whole world that everyone speaks completely fluently. Thoughts?

 

[Li Shenron]

Along the lines of this, has anyone tried doing various degrees of language proficiency? I'm thinking of having every language (even Common) have a three point rank system. One rank buys basic travelisms to get you by: "Donde esta el bano?" Two ranks buys a tradesman or immigrant's grasp, and 3 ranks gives full native fluency. It just seems more natural to me than one language over a whole world that everyone speaks completely fluently. Thoughts?

I remember that I liked Kalamar's system. IIRC, it was a 5-ranks systems doubled by separating ranks in spoken and written language. But because using skill points normally it would have been too expensive, they introduced language points per class in addition to skill points.

Instead of using language points, it could be best to just stick with skill points and find a good conversion, such as 1 skill point = 3 language points, so that a PC can choose how much or how little to learn languages.