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Knowledge: Local?
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DonTadow
First Post
Nonlethal Force
First Post
Okay, to be honest I was interested in this discussion but now it seems like it has deteriorated. So, I'll say what I have to say and then wish everyone well in arguing! 
Whoever it was earlier that said I was equating knowledge:local to Gather Information is dead wrong. They don't overlap at all. I'll give an example.
Party walks into a new town. Bob, an aspiring cultural anthropologist (Meaning he has a few ranks in Knowledge:local) looks around at what he sees in the people. He sees that most people are walking around in long clothing. He also notices that most of the women are wearing scarves. Then, he realizes that almost everyone is wearing some sort of headcovering. So, Bob interprets these things and comes up with a logical conclusion that this particular locality must have a cultural taboo against having an uncovered body. Therefore, to avoid violating the taboo, Bob suggests that the party cover themselves a bit more.
Now, Fred, an aspiring detective (meaning he has ranks in Gather information) decides to test Bob's theory and steps up to a man and asks if the way the party is dressed is offensive to any cultural taboo. The man says yes and explains the origin of the taboo because Fred just has a knack for getting information out of people.
Huh. Imagine that. There is an example where the skills not only don't overlap, but gee, maybe they actually help each other. And, believe it or not, it is not a stretch of the imagination as a DM to give both skills value. Say, for example, that because of Bob's ability to discern the local customs through his training in "old-fashioned cultural anthropology" that we call Knowledge:local - Bob is able to enable his party to avoid the law that requiresdeath to all who enter the town and fail to observe the taboo. Fred not only confirmed Bob's presupposition, but Fred actually makes a friend who happens to need a favor and hires the party to complete a mission for him.
See, it is just about the DMs ability to be flexible. Anyone can come down hard and say "Stupid, that just makes them overlap so you're wrong." But a little patience and imagination can see beyond that conclusion and see how both might enrich the game.
Knowledge skills are about learning. Learning information and managing information. Learning how to interpret life around you. Doesn't have to actually involve interaction. Gather information doesn't demand much knowledge ... but it does demand interaction. They don't need to overlap at all. In fact, they can work hand in hand.
Whoever it was earlier that said I was equating knowledge:local to Gather Information is dead wrong. They don't overlap at all. I'll give an example.
Party walks into a new town. Bob, an aspiring cultural anthropologist (Meaning he has a few ranks in Knowledge:local) looks around at what he sees in the people. He sees that most people are walking around in long clothing. He also notices that most of the women are wearing scarves. Then, he realizes that almost everyone is wearing some sort of headcovering. So, Bob interprets these things and comes up with a logical conclusion that this particular locality must have a cultural taboo against having an uncovered body. Therefore, to avoid violating the taboo, Bob suggests that the party cover themselves a bit more.
Now, Fred, an aspiring detective (meaning he has ranks in Gather information) decides to test Bob's theory and steps up to a man and asks if the way the party is dressed is offensive to any cultural taboo. The man says yes and explains the origin of the taboo because Fred just has a knack for getting information out of people.
Huh. Imagine that. There is an example where the skills not only don't overlap, but gee, maybe they actually help each other. And, believe it or not, it is not a stretch of the imagination as a DM to give both skills value. Say, for example, that because of Bob's ability to discern the local customs through his training in "old-fashioned cultural anthropology" that we call Knowledge:local - Bob is able to enable his party to avoid the law that requiresdeath to all who enter the town and fail to observe the taboo. Fred not only confirmed Bob's presupposition, but Fred actually makes a friend who happens to need a favor and hires the party to complete a mission for him.
See, it is just about the DMs ability to be flexible. Anyone can come down hard and say "Stupid, that just makes them overlap so you're wrong." But a little patience and imagination can see beyond that conclusion and see how both might enrich the game.
Knowledge skills are about learning. Learning information and managing information. Learning how to interpret life around you. Doesn't have to actually involve interaction. Gather information doesn't demand much knowledge ... but it does demand interaction. They don't need to overlap at all. In fact, they can work hand in hand.
Jdvn1
Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
A) When a definition is not covered by the rules, a dictionary is probably the best source for information. 2) Even if a DM determines whatever city or town he wants to be notable, it still probably wouldn't give information on "any village, hamlet or city" as you said earlier.DonTadow said:
DonTadow
First Post
Depends on the dm. I can honestly say that I have never played or dm'd a campaign with a bard in the party and sometme during a new city the bard didn't get to make a bardic knowledge check. Most of the dungeon adventures I read and all those I've picked up by AEG provide bardic knowledge checks. Bardic knowledge checks can usually take the place of most knowledge checks wit ha +5 added to the difficulty. That's been primarily the rule set by wizards in their adventures and publications.Jdvn1 said:
Storyteller01
First Post
Nonlethal Force said:
We can also take your example one step further.
Two rogues are working a particualr caper together. One is a foreign confidence man who has convinced the second, a local cat burgalur, to work with him.
The player of the second uses K:L to see if he knows where the local guild is operating and what they may be doing (even merchants know where not to set up shop if they don't ant to pay for 'protection'). He's lived there long enough to know some info without actually have to ask.
The player of the first starts using GI on the local nobles, finding out who may be the best target, the general layout layout of their houses, etc.
Based off of both sets of info, they have a nice list of targets waiting to have their baubles 'liberated' without stepping on the toes of the local guilds. Or, if they don't care about the guilds, they may have a general idea of the guilds strength based off of the rogues K:L check.
My interpretation. YMMV
Last edited:
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
DonTadow said:
Unfortunately, if that's the way to interpret the knowledge skills, there's a problem. Notice that under history it says "royalty, wars, colonies, migrations, founding of cities". Nowhere does it say that these are, in any way, historical other than what is implied by the founding of cities. I guess the Know: History skill applies to current royals, wars, colonies, and migrations as opposed to historical?
What I'm getting at is the weirdness of not using the title of the skill to understand what the definition means, particularly when the definition is as sketchy as "legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions, humanoids".
Patryn of Elvenshae
First Post
billd91 said:
Why wouldn't it?
"Queen Blash'ad'er, the fourth of her name, is the direct descendent of the original Sparthian conquerer who annihilated the Jerubites in this area of the world. She is currently fighting a war of expansion against the Chor'am, which is really just an extension of the various border-feuds and land-disputes that have plagued this region for centuries.
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