Knowledge (Local)

[Omegaxicor]

The main problem is that most of you seem to be missing the point of the skill, if your Barbarian has invested points into Knowledge (local) then he HAS chosen to research local customs or myths.

"what if my Barbarian, with Knowledge (Local), isn't well travelled" is like saying "What if my Barbarian, with Move Silently, has no training in tiptoeing" by the fact that he has training in Move Silently he has training in moving silently

When he arrives in a new area he goes to the tavern and asks the local Bard about the area and thus learns knowledge (Local) for this area. Ranks in the skill mean that you know what questions to ask the Bard to learn the most about the area in as shorter time as possible

EDIT: I don't like the Move Silently example but that was all I could think of without resorting to Psicraft and having never heard of Psionics but that treads back into the Knowledge skill territory.

 

[Li Shenron]

The main problem is that most of you seem to be missing the point of the skill, if your Barbarian has invested points into Knowledge (local) then he HAS chosen to research local customs or myths.

"what if my Barbarian, with Knowledge (Local), isn't well travelled" is like saying "What if my Barbarian, with Move Silently, has no training in tiptoeing" by the fact that he has training in Move Silently he has training in moving silently

When he arrives in a new area he goes to the tavern and asks the local Bard about the area and thus learns knowledge (Local) for this area. Ranks in the skill mean that you know what questions to ask the Bard to learn the most about the area in as shorter time as possible

This is one way of looking at it, but personally I use Gather Information for that.

I use Knowledge for all the stuff you already know from your previous history, be it first-hand knowledge ("been there, done that") or second-hand (including books).

Also, I leave spare knowledge about potentially everywhere to Bardic Knowledge, just to give them a unique edge.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Gather Information is very specific, "I want to know about Baron <...>, What does he think of the group of brigands", whereas Knowledge (Local) is more along the lines of "What is north of here. A forest? What have you heard about the forest" very general...

 

[Li Shenron]

Gather Information is very specific, "I want to know about Baron <...>, What does he think of the group of brigands", whereas Knowledge (Local) is more along the lines of "What is north of here. A forest? What have you heard about the forest" very general...

I hope I don't sound too blunt, but you are totally making this up!

There is no reason why Gather Info has to be used only for specific questions, you can just go around and gather "some" useful info, without knowing beforehand what. Clearly not "all" possible info about a town at once, but things like "what's up in town these days" and your own example "what's interesting about the north forest" are perfectly fine things to gather info about, if you ask me...

 

[Water Bob]

The main problem is that most of you seem to be missing the point of the skill, if your Barbarian has invested points into Knowledge (local) then he HAS chosen to research local customs or myths.

I see what you're saying, but what you say only makes sense in Knowledge (Local) represents one area (like the Barbarian's clan holdings).

If you use the broader use of the skill, it is kinda silly to say that the Barbarian has knowledge of all local areas everywhere.

If you do use the broader use of the skill, then the skill becomes less about what the character knows about a specific area and more about how apt the character is to listen for tid-bits of information and put 2+2 together when in areas so that he can figure out things about the area--kinda like the Gather Information skill.

 

[kitcik]

The barbarian has... talked with travelers, and was interested enough to make the stories of foreigners into a source of study.

I see what you're saying, but what you say only makes sense in Knowledge (Local) represents one area (like the Barbarian's clan holdings).

If you use the broader use of the skill, it is kinda silly to say that the Barbarian has knowledge of all local areas everywhere.

If you do use the broader use of the skill, then the skill becomes less about what the character knows about a specific area and more about how apt the character is to listen for tid-bits of information and put 2+2 together when in areas so that he can figure out things about the area--kinda like the Gather Information skill.

I disagree. I see it more like [MENTION=2198]Spatula[/MENTION] above. This barbarian was, as a kid, the one who snuck out of his house at night and hung around the tavern, fascinated by the stories of travelers. When he arrives at a new location, it's like "I remember when the man with the blue turban told of his city of spires amid the sand. I think he said something about a large temple on the east side of town - could this be what we are looking for?"

 

[Water Bob]

I disagree. I see it more like @Spatula above. This barbarian was, as a kid, the one who snuck out of his house at night and hung around the tavern, fascinated by the stories of travelers. When he arrives at a new location, it's like "I remember when the man with the blue turban told of his city of spires amid the sand. I think he said something about a large temple on the east side of town - could this be what we are looking for?"

Well, like I said, it's hard for me to buy that if you use the skill broadly. The Barbarian may have heard of some places, but not all places.

If the skill is used broadly, as suggested in the OP, then Knowledge (Local) can be used for information no matter where the Barbarian happens to be.



Now, OTOH, if the skill is used narrowly, and Knowledge (Local) is tied to a specific area, requiring the player to buy Knowledge (Local) several times for different areas, then I have no trouble at all going with what you and [MENTION=2198]Spatula[/MENTION] say above.



It comes down to how the skill is played. (This is, really, the question put forth in the OP.)

Is Knowledge (Local) a single skill that is used no matter where the character travels?

Or, must the character buy the skill several times, learning about different areas, having the skill tied to specific geographical locations: Knowledge (Local - Dalelands); Knowledge (Local - Neverwinter); Knowledge (Local - Cormyr); Knowledge (Local - Thay).

 

[Omegaxicor]

I hope I don't sound too blunt, but you are totally making this up!

There is no reason why Gather Info has to be used only for specific questions, you can just go around and gather "some" useful info, without knowing beforehand what. Clearly not "all" possible info about a town at once, but things like "what's up in town these days" and your own example "what's interesting about the north forest" are perfectly fine things to gather info about, if you ask me...

I am not making up anything (or maybe I am since the Rules aren't very clear on specifics) I am simply stating that is how my group uses it.

However reading through the PHB I think I might have gotten them mixed up:

1) Gather Information is a DC 10 check to find out general information, something more specific is a higher DC

2) Knowledge (local) is local customs and myths

essentially RAW says that Gather Information is for things you can't learn in a Library, such as the governor's wife is going to divorce him, but anything else is Knowledge (Local), such as, the town has four Graveyards, two of them are full and one is Haunted.

 

[Water Bob]

essentially RAW says that Gather Information is for things you can't learn in a Library, such as the governor's wife is going to divorce him, but anything else is Knowledge (Local), such as, the town has four Graveyards, two of them full.

A lot of overlap there, kinda like the difference between spot and search. I read somewhere on one of the threads here that Pathfinder combined some skills--I think it was move silent and hide into a skill called Stealth. Something like that.

Maybe this is another area that could be a candidate for combination.





Be that as it may--I don't want to rewrite RAW, and I'll play with it as it is.

I am more inclined, though, to play Knowledge (Local) broadly, as one skill and not a host of separate skills that the player must buy for one, simple reason: Skill points are a rare resource.

The game doesn't provide enought skill points for the character to invest in Knowledge (Local) several times for several specific places. Using the skill broadly makes it much more useful to a player--and thus, not something that will be ignored.

I mean, really, how often do you see a player investing precious skill points into a Perform skill? Unless that skill is somehow important to the game (in the Conan RPG, Perform - Ritual can be used to make sorcerery stronger and more powerful), then the skill is usually ignored.

 

[Li Shenron]

A lot of overlap there, kinda like the difference between spot and search.

Some people want skills to be separated from each other, like forming a "partition", but there is no fundamental reason why they should not overlap, and there are examples in published books about using one skill or another to do exactly the same thing. Overlapping also helps next point:

I am more inclined, though, to play Knowledge (Local) broadly, as one skill and not a host of separate skills that the player must buy for one, simple reason: Skill points are a rare resource.

If you think in your game a PC is penalized for having chosen a weak skill, go ahead and make it more useful in the way you prefer.

My personal take on the subject has always been to just try to put more occasions in the story for using neglected skills, or alternatively to come up with additional permanent uses to the narrowest skills.