Knowledge (Local)

[anest1s]

No, they're illiterate.

In fact, they think that writing is a form of sorcerery (it's amazing to them that people can communicate such detailed ideas with just marks--it must be sorcerery!), and they shun it.

But that doesn't mean that the traveler who came to trade for their steel didn't bring with him some interesting bit of info from afar. Or that, as the Barbarian PCs lived their lives, that, sitting around the campfire, stories were not told. Or even that individuals of other races (Aesir, Hyperboreans, a traveler from the Border Kingdom, Aquilionans) couldn't find their way through the clan's territory at one time or another.

Ok I still fail to see how in a limited amount of time your PCs managed to hear stories from individuals from all around the world (if we accept that someone would add useless details like in what street the library is in their tales).

Anyway, RAW aside our DM asks us to roll a gather information, in order to study the new area, so we can use our knowledge (local) there. I think it makes more sense than both "you know everything" and "you know only one city" suggestions.

 

[Water Bob]

Ok I still fail to see how in a limited amount of time your PCs managed to hear stories from individuals from all around the world (if we accept that someone would add useless details like in what street the library is in their tales).

Well, that's my point. If you play the skill narrow, it makes more sense but becomes useful onto to characters who do not travel.

If you make the skill broad, then the skill is useful for players to put points into, but it starts to not make sense.

Anyway, RAW aside our DM asks us to roll a gather information, in order to study the new area, so we can use our knowledge (local) there. I think it makes more sense than both "you know everything" and "you know only one city" suggestions.

I like it. It doesn't solve the entire issue, but I'm glad you posted the idea.

 

[Water Bob]

OK, after reading these comments and studying the rule in the book, here's what I think:



1. I think that RAW intends for Knowledge (Local) to be applied to a specified area. It's not meant to span the entire gaming world. I think the Greyhawk quote up thread is spot on--on how the game desingers intended the skill to be used.

It's not a broad skill. It's intended to represent a character's knowledge of a specific area, and that area is defined by the player and the GM.



2. Therefore, this is not a skill for everybody. It's especially not a good choice for characters who travel a lot.

But, that doesn't make the skill unique. Craft (weaponsmith) isn't a great skill for traveling characters, either, because the character with that skill doesn't have easy access to a forge.

Profession (Fence) isn't a great skill to have if the character travels away from his contacts. Etc.



3. It is a good skill for a character to have if the game is set up in a sandbox. Because the character will rarely leave the sandbox, the skill is very useful.

The skill is also useful for certain types of characters. An NPC Ranger who knows the Blah-Blah mountains well--Knowledge (Local) is a great skill for that character to have.

If you seek out a guide, you're hoping that your guide will have a decent bonus in this skill (and the skill pertains to the area where you need the guide).










- COMMENTARY -

Because the skill is tied to one area, I find that players are loathe to put precious skill points into a skill that the players forsee as not being useful and worthy of the points.

The net effect is that you end up with characters who don't know anything more than Joe Blow about their native environment.

OTOH, the broad use of the skill, where the skill is not tied to any specific area, makes for a more desireable skill--because the players find it more useful in more situations. But, playing the rule this way is really a house rule and not RAW.

The broad use of the skill, too, usually breaks the rule of common sense.

 

[Li Shenron]

But, playing the rule this way is really a house rule and not RAW.

Just because you've find a good interpretation of the skill, I now proceed to bring more confusion to the thread

I checked my PHB and everything seems to point out that we were wrong, that Knowledge(Local) is indeed meant to be one skill for everywhere. Be warned that my PHB is 3.0, and I don't have the 3.5 corebooks to check (but the 3.5 SRD seems to be quite the same).

Then I proceeded to check some supplements to see how NPC were written up, and I can tell you that the designers of the game themselves are confused... The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting lists NPCs such as Elminster having one Knowledge(Local) +XX, while at least some regional supplements list NPCs as having Knowledge(Local - Underdark) or Knowledge(Local - Waterdeep) and some of them definitely have multiple Knowledge(Local) skills listed!

My conclusion: screw the RAW and play it like you want

 

[anest1s]

Just because you've find a good interpretation of the skill, I now proceed to bring more confusion to the thread

I checked my PHB and everything seems to point out that we were wrong, that Knowledge(Local) is indeed meant to be one skill for everywhere. Be warned that my PHB is 3.0, and I don't have the 3.5 corebooks to check (but the 3.5 SRD seems to be quite the same).

Then I proceeded to check some supplements to see how NPC were written up, and I can tell you that the designers of the game themselves are confused... The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting lists NPCs such as Elminster having one Knowledge(Local) +XX, while at least some regional supplements list NPCs as having Knowledge(Local - Underdark) or Knowledge(Local - Waterdeep) and some of them definitely have multiple Knowledge(Local) skills listed!

My conclusion: screw the RAW and play it like you want

Why not play it the way *the players* want?

 

[Water Bob]

I checked my PHB and everything seems to point out that we were wrong, that Knowledge(Local) is indeed meant to be one skill for everywhere. Be warned that my PHB is 3.0, and I don't have the 3.5 corebooks to check (but the 3.5 SRD seems to be quite the same).

I've got all three editions of the Conan RPG (1E, version 1.5 Atlantean edition, and 2E).

In the 2E version, it says exactly this:

Knowledge Local (particular regions; This skill can be used in place of Geography, History, Nature, Nobility & Royalty, Religion or Rumors for questions relating to a specific region).

That leads me to believe that the skill is meant for specific regions--purchased separately for different regions.

The 1E and 1.5E defintions are more vague (this is the same as the D&D 3.5 version):

Knowledge Local (legends, personalities, inhabitants, laws, customs, traditions).

This leads me to believe that the 2E version is a clarified version of what appeared in the first edition books--meaning that the skill is meant for specific regions and a narrow interpretation.



So, I'm thinking that RAW still intends the skill to be used for a specific georgraphical area.

 

[Water Bob]

I've been looking at other d20 based games and searching the web for some definitive answers to the Knowledge (Local) question, and I'm not having much luck other than finding similar discussions that ask the same question.

At the Wizards.com site, I found a Forgotten Realms official errata page, and interestingly, it says this:


Local Knowledge: The Knowledge (local) skill per se does not exist in the Forgotten Realms campaign. Instead, a character who chooses the Knowledge (local) skill [FONT=JMHPJA+TimesNewRoman,Italic,Times New Roman][FONT=JMHPJA+TimesNewRoman,Italic,Times New Roman]must [/FONT][/FONT]specify the region his local knowledge applies to. For example, a character familiar with legends and personalities of Sembia would simply take the Knowledge (Sembia) skill.

When it says the Knowlege (Local) skill does not exist in the Forgotten Realms setting, it's basicaly stating that the broad version of the skill isn't used--only the narrow, site-specific, version.

That makes me think that there are two ways to play the skill, broad or narrow.





EDIT: In my own RPG, the Conan RPG, I've found more evidence that the skill is to be used narrowly, with "Local" pertaining to a specific area. Each Racial type gets 2 bonus ranks in Knowledge (Local) to represent the appropriate general knowledge picked up during a character's childhood.

Again, we see that the skill is intended for narrow, specific areas.

The evidence builds that the skill is intended as a narrow skill.

 

[Water Bob]

Thinking this through a little farther....

The Knowledge (Local) skill replaces several other skills: the Knowledge specializations of Geography, History, Nature, Nobility & Royalty, Religion, and Rumors.

Why even have those other skills if Knowledge (Local) can be used no matter where you are.

I think that seals it for me.

The limitation of Knowledge (Local) is that the skill covers a limited area. Outside of that limited area, the skill is of no use, and the other skills must be used.